Brian Charyn, Director of Operations for 12 Five Guys locations

Daniel Blaser (00:06):

Hello and welcome to On the Clock, presented by Workstream. If you care about hiring and retaining hourly employees, you're in the right place. I'm Daniel Blaser, and today I am clocking in with Brian Charyn. Brian is Director of Operations at Sheridan Investments, a franchisee of 12 five guys locations in New Jersey and Florida. Brian shares how they achieve a retention rate that's above the industry average and what it means to not give his managers homework. He also discusses how they've adapted to an increasing minimum wage and how Workstream has helped them expand their hiring efforts beyond Indeed. What do you love about your job and specifically, you know, maybe as it relates to the staff and employees?

Brian Charyn (00:47):

It's pretty, it's pretty simple. Earlier on in my career, being either unit level or district manager, things like that, I had always wanted to get to the point of being a director of operations and running a franchise. And the love comes from being able to make decisions based upon the good, bad and ugly I experienced over that time. So there are things, I do the same. There are things I do markedly different because I want to stay connected to what makes people as productive as possible. And the main thing, if I'm gonna underline all of that, is keep your people out front with customers. Don't give them too much homework. That's my philosophy.

Daniel Blaser (01:27):

I like that. Can we go into what you mean by don't give them too much homework? Just a little bit. I'm interested in that.

Brian Charyn (01:32):

A firm believer in paralysis by analysis. I can do all the analysis I need to everything. It's 2023. Every result is, is digital. I can get anything I need about anything going on in any store, including cameras, transactions, online delivery, you name it. If there's something that needs to be worked on, I'd rather discuss with my people, do they understand the result? And what can we do moving forward? I don't like people filling out spreadsheets. I don't like people filling out sheets that have data that I can get somewhere else because it makes me think they're going to be paying attention because they're typing into a computer. I never believed that when I had to do it. If you're being judged and your merit is based on clear metrics and five guys, Wendy's, you name the company, we all have various metrics. Super secret shoppers, audits, health and safety, customer surveys, you name it.

(02:31):

I think the managers are pretty aware that that's the stuff. And if you're, the other thing is I bonus my managers off very clear metrics. So if they, if they're bonusing, they know they're performing, if they're not bonusing, they know they're have things to improve on. So it's more about discussion and everyday communication than it is about giving people homework. Because the minute you want someone sitting in front of a computer like I am with you right now, then they're running it from looking at the cameras in the back on their, and you know, there's no audio on those cameras. So a picture doesn't always, you know, say a thousand words. It doesn't the actions out front. None of my managers disagree with this by the way. They know that the more they're not with their people and five guys being a very hands-on manager position, they realize that this is my philosophy the last six years. So that, that's pretty much what I mean by not giving them homework and keeping them out front.

Daniel Blaser (03:28):

I love that. That's a great philosophy. One impromptu question that I, I want to ask just selfishly, 'cause I'm a big fan of five guys. What, what is like a menu item or a customization or something that is like maybe a little bit less known that I should try next time I'm in?

Brian Charyn (03:43):

I don't think anything's less known when it comes to burgers and fries, play around with the shakes. So if you do, you know, peanut butter and chocolate you're, you could just play around with it and, you know, and, and get somewhere with those shake flavors in an interesting way. So that's really what I think people play around with the most. You're allowed to get as many fillings in the shakes as you want. So the one that seems to be the most unique, but people realize what it is, is if you do, if you do peanut butter, chocolate, and bacon, it tastes like a, it tastes like a Butterfinger.

Daniel Blaser (04:20):

Oh. So try that. That sounds delicious. Yeah. <laugh>.

Brian Charyn (04:23):

Yeah, we'll try

Daniel Blaser (04:24):

That. Maybe that's, I'll I'll tell my wife That's our plan for, for dinner tonight. That sounds really good.

Brian Charyn (04:28):

As far as burgers and fries, no one does anything really outta the ordinary. There's been some tiktoks over the past few years of things that people think are new, but it's not. 'cause The company has been around forever. So they've played around with stuff all the time, whether it's putting a patty on a grilled cheese instead of doing it like a regular burger. But the, the coolest thing about Five Guys is it's unlimited toppings. So do what, do what you want.

Daniel Blaser (04:52):

I agree. That's one thing I, I've always enjoyed about it. All right. Sorry, maybe I'm, I'm just hungry 'cause I haven't had breakfast yet, so it's no secret that, you know, quick service restaurants have faced a lot of staffing challenges over the last couple of years. Can you talk about some that you've faced specifically?

Brian Charyn (05:09):

What is it, three years into work stream now? I don't have the same problems I had before. That's good. That's why we're sitting here.

Daniel Blaser (05:15):

Oh, great.

Brian Charyn (05:16):

It comes down to how do people apply? What's their attention span? How do you get to them quickly? How do people want to communicate? And creating less work again for unit level. So where I think we struggled in the past was tons of no-shows, especially when I was just going through Indeed and Indeed alone. And the problem with Indeed is they're looking at a million jobs while they're applying, right? So they got the interview on Friday because our manager called you on Wednesday and then two other people that you applied at at the exact same time call you really wanted this other one anyway, it's around the same time as the one for Five guys. So I'm gonna skip out on the Five guys one and I'm sure people that show up for us are doing the same thing to other companies. So it's, it's luck of the draw.

(06:04):

Yes. I have to teach my managers about creating excitement over the phone, letting them know that, hey, interview is just the last piece of the puzzle. It's pretty easy to get a job here. I could teach you everything you need to know. Come on in, let's meet. So there's that end of it. That's always been the case in hiring is you gotta create excitement, smile on the phone to cut to, to employees, do a phone screen, figure out if you even really wanna bring 'em in, whatever you have to do. But I really think it's the engagement, the fact that they're getting the texts, they're getting the emails. It's, it's good for the younger employee. I mean, I don't hire teenagers with the minimum wage where it is in New Jersey. I think we get plenty of applications of, of people that are adults. But I will hire a high school senior, especially if they're gonna go to college locally, but we really don't do the seasonal thing.

(06:49):

The staffs aren't big enough, I think, to really do seasonals. Unless you're fully staffed and you wanna do a seasonal because you know, this person, I don't know, maybe it's someone's brother or sister or it's a pipeline of high school kids that you've been getting from the town that you have the store in. So I've seen that. But you really wanna stay away from hiring someone who's a junior in high school and they're not sure if they want work or not, or people going back and forth. So again, the, the, the challenge of engagement has been solved with the process. The, what's the word I'm looking for? The integration with Five Guys website that's been helpful. So if I change something on workstream, it's gonna change on Indeed, it's gonna change on ZipRecruiter, it's gonna change at, you know, the website on Five Guys.

(07:36):

So that integration was huge. I think that was one of the bigger things in the beginning that Five Guys was struggling with the company they were using and we were using in the first place and then they started letting us go where we wanted to go. And that integration has gotten better there, but the vast majority of applications nowadays I think is indeed, indeed pretty much as a monopoly compared to everybody else. The way I look at it as long as I'm getting applicants, I'm not gonna get involved in what that really means. But the other thing I also like is no offense to Indeed, my job is a lot easier just going through a one-stop shop with you guys and then it's on all the boards. Because when I was going through Indeed it was someone from Indeed is calling me. They're just trying to sell me more things that they do.

(08:22):

I really just need good visibility. So now that we can just pay 50, a hundred, $150 for a boosted ad and get 25 more applications because of what it's gonna look like on Indeed, it's so much easier outta Sight Outta Mind. I click that and now when that guy calls me, I tell him everything's great. I boost ads once in a while. You're getting that money and everything's Hunky Monkey now. There's more companies like Workstream now. So I think Indeed needed to get used to that. Another good example is we just picked up those five stores in Naples. My counterpart down there is going through Indeed directly and I know what that felt like. So he has the same feelings that I had three years ago and now I'm explaining to him what's going to change by him using workstream. They did try workstream a ways back in a different franchise he was in, but as you sway and a couple people know, clients get out of work stream, what they put into it.

(09:21):

You can't just, you, it doesn't work just because we pay for the program. So I'm on this call 'cause I am, I don't know, throw the word super user around whatever you want it to be, but the more you understand what you're paying for and what you're using, the more you're gonna get out of it. But that's with anything. It's with a guitar amplifier, it's with a computer, it's with anything you use. So when I talk to other clients that could possibly use work stream, try to explain to them what my rhythms are and how I use it, that's almost as important, if not more important than workstream itself.

Daniel Blaser (09:53):

One question I wanted to ask you about. As I've, you know, I'm chatting with a lot of you know, their director of operations and recruiting managers and whatnot. It seems like there's been a little bit of a shift, you know, where a year ago it was all just like, get people in the door sourcing, sourcing, sourcing and like there's a little bit of a shift in priorities more towards retention a little bit over the last, you know, maybe six months or so. Have you kind of experienced that shift yourself and then how have you maybe responded to that?

Brian Charyn (10:25):

I think retention is more brand culture than anything. So our retention overall as a franchise is actually very, very good. I have one location where the present GM doesn't have great retention. When you got on here, I was busy emailing him because he was deciding to use the workstream message system after an employee has already been working in his store to ask the employee questions. And I'm, I'm in the middle of writing an email to him going, that's not our HR policy, that you have their phone number, you have their contact info, you're supposed to contact them directly going through work stream. You know, hrs gonna look at that. Like that's your recruiting platform. That's not your ongoing, you know employee communication system. But other than that our retention's been pretty good. But I think our retention comes more down to culture and the way our managers treat our employees.

(11:17):

Clear expectations, our pay, there's a bonus program even for Crew at Five Guys and a lot of, a lot of brands don't have that. They get rewarded for shopper scores secret shop scores and that's twice a week. So you're talking over 90 a year. And you know, they can make 50, $75 a pop every time they get a hundred. So, and then there's electronic tips. That's another thing that's really helped out. I think with our our arena especially QSR is that if a QSR is doing electronic tips, it's right in their paycheck. It comes off of whatever people are swiping on their credit cards, they're hitting 10%, they're hitting $3, whatever it is. And I know there are some companies out there that are not doing electronic tips. I've heard about companies that have put on the electronic tips and keep the money.

(12:09):

I mean, as soon as electronic tips came on board, I looked at it as a retention device. So it's like, here's, you know, we pay a little more than minimum wage 'cause we want to in New Jersey and it's already pretty high. It's above 14 now. So we don't start anyone at minimum wage. We usually start around 14, 25 plus shops plus tips. So if someone else is offering them 15, 15, 50, 16, we're already paying more than that with those other two buckets. So that's part of the retention along with I'd say culture of the managers and people being firm and fair with their staff. But we've been staffed pretty well. I think the pandemic has thrown some curve balls in there where people like me can tell you what they think. But do we know, I don't know, I I know a lot of different people of all ages and all generations are finding ways to work less.

(13:00):

That seems to be a thing. Great if you can pay your bills and work less if you can. I mean, I said that right when the pandemic started. I said, this is gonna be about people reassessing how they live because they're gonna not be going out. They're gonna be saving money if they keep their job and don't go to the club every Friday and Saturday night. Now all of a sudden they have this money, they're gonna fix something in the house. And then once it's time to go back to normal, are they gonna go back to exactly what they were doing before? Now kids have to make up for lost time, but adults know the difference between what they were doing and what you know can be done. So we did see some difference there in how people behave. But, and then I'd say the minimum wage, you know, I mean you gotta roll with it.

(13:41):

It's, it's gonna, the cost is gonna come down on us and the customer, but can you get better employees and better retention because people are making more money? I'd like to say yes. I'd like to say that if we're gonna invest more in our employees, we would expect more back. And if you expect more back, usually that's gonna be a happy employer and a happy employee. And they're gonna stick around. I think when minimum wage was much lower, the old adage of people are gonna go somewhere else for 50 cents was very popular. Now when you're making 14 plus the tips plus the shops, I don't think 50 cents is as exciting as I don't know if I'm gonna like it there and I like it here. So, you know, I, regardless of where people stand on what they think minimum wage should be, I'm one of those people that regardless of what I think about it, I have to make it work for me.

(14:32):

You know, it's the who move my cheese book, right? It's happening here it is. Make it work for you. And I had conversations with my owner one of my two owners well before the minimum wage is where it is now because it was a dollar an hour for multiple years up until next year is the last year it goes up. And it was a lot of me having conversations about how are we gonna get better employees over this? It can't just be the same thing for what's gonna turn out to be $5 more in 2024. And I think we've done that. So

Daniel Blaser (15:06):

Yeah. That's great. Is it go ties to what you were saying earlier about kind of setting that standard a little bit higher and then meeting that with, you know, better culture, better benefits, all that stuff you're talking about. So very cool. One more question I have. So a lot of people that are gonna listen to this conversation, like I mentioned, they're generally like they're, they care about hiring and retention of hourly employees, like, you know, different roles, but that's what's on their mind. You've given a lot of great advice, great perspectives already, but like what, is there any other piece of advice or recommendations you would give to this group broadly that's going to listen,

Brian Charyn (15:45):

Stay connected with your people on the process? Anyone could fill out an application and make it look great. There are plenty of employees out there that do not fill out an application really well. And I'd like to think in my career I've become really good at deciphering the difference between the two. So there's sometimes gonna be someone that says, I worked at Wendy's, but they don't put a date. They don't put for how long, but it's well written and they seem eager, they put, they could work every shift. They put, they want full-time, more than 30 hours. So instead of saying, no, I have better applications that are more clear, I will manage my general manager into going, Hey, there's not much here. Give 'em a phone screen, fill in the blanks and figure out if you want them to come in. I'm not telling you they have to come in, but there's more information. Or I could even send the message or best my, my regional manager could send the message, Hey, I saw your application, can you gimme a little bit more information? How long have you been with Wendy's? So I would say engage, engage, engage. Don't take anything at face value. This is a tool, but we still have to do the work. So that's the advice I would give.

Daniel Blaser (16:54):

Brian, I really appreciate you taking a half hour out of your day and and chatting with me a little bit. This has been great.

Brian Charyn (16:59):

You got it anytime.

Daniel Blaser (17:08):

Thank you for listening to On the Clock. For more info, visit workstream.us/podcast. I've included a link in the show notes to connect with Brian on LinkedIn. Until next time, we're clocking out.