How to increase Gen Z retention with Terese Fogleman

Daniel Blaser (00:04):

Hello, and welcome to On the Clock, presented by Workstream. If you care about hiring and retaining hourly employees, you're in the right place. I'm Daniel Blazer, and today I'm clocking in with Therese Fogelman, owner and operator of Chick-fil-A in Boone, North Carolina. Our conversation is an excerpt from a recent webinar with Therese, in which she shares three tactics for increasing retention among Gen Z employees. Her perspective is battle tested, yet rooted in empathy. If you'd like to listen to the other half of that discussion, I've included a link in the show notes to watch the complete webinar for free

Terese Fogleman (00:38):

For those who are listening. Just a little bit of information about Gen Z that's considered anyone who was born 2001 and forward. So we're, you know, it's people basically who are 22 years old and younger, and for those who have hourly employees in things like restaurants, hotels, theme parks, all of that, that really is your labor pool, that age group. So that's what we're talking about when we talk about Gen Z and those three buckets that you were referring to. We talked about creating a culture of care, predictable scheduling, and flexibility in scheduling.

Daniel Blaser (01:24):

Now you said creating a culture of care is kind of the first one. Maybe we start with that. I'd love to hear what that means and also maybe how your own children kind of influence this one.

Terese Fogleman (01:37):

Well, I, I have four children two stepchildren and two biological children. My biological children, I have two sons, and they're in their late twenties and early thirties, and they really did teach me a lot about caring. I, I came into motherhood with a, a, a decent amount of experience because I had my own babysitting and nanny business in, in high school and college. I, I really cared about children. I thought I was going to be a teacher. But as I started looking into that more, I just decided that wasn't my path. But I knew that I liked to work with children. And then with, with my children both of them had issues when they were young. One had very strong A DHD, and the other was born with some physical handy caps that had to do with his, his hands and his stomach.

(02:45):

So, being faced with those challenges as a young mother, I, I had to be very innovative with how to raise them because the, the, one of the things that was going on when my oldest was a little boy is everybody was getting on Ritalin. You know, kids were getting on Ritalin at, in preschool. And the research that I had done, I just thought, I don't wanna go that path. So I contacted a specialist and he said, there is a different path, but it, it, it takes a lot of planning and, and working to take this path. And it had to do with diet, exercise, certain types of attention exercises to teach him. And we walked that path. And he did very well with it. But it, it required more of me as a mother and I, I learned to be very patient, to be innovative, to be very consistent, and to be caring with a child that sometimes was quite all over the place.

(03:57):

But he, he's, he's doing great, you know, he's had his ups and downs, but he, he's doing great now. But his, his younger brother was born with physical handicaps that required surgery and a special diet and all of that. So again, I was like, all right, I gotta step up to the plate. And part of that for me is researching, trying to understand, putting in the work and helping each of my children to live the healthiest life that they could live with the cards that they were dealt. So I grew a lot in patience and caring <laugh>. So during those years and, and it translates so well to working with young people now because one of the things about Gen Z that people sort of poke fun at, but it's, it's true to extent, is they might be the most diagnosed generation that's ever lived.

(05:00):

And when people come and they're sitting down with me and they're interviewing, you know, they're telling me right out of the gate, I struggle with depression, I struggle with panic. I have a DH you know, I have a DHD, I'm on the autism spectrum. And none of that scares me because my life as a mother and working with young people, and it, it's prepared me, you know, I think, okay, well, we'll, you can work here. It'll be great. And if you need assistance, accommodations, whatever, you know, what's important is that you learn the job and that you can do the job. But we're not gonna look sideways at you. If you have a DHD, welcome to the club <laugh>. You know, we've got 25 people here with a DHD. So it's really uniquely prepared me for a generation that does talk very openly about mental health issues physical issues, all of that.

Daniel Blaser (06:05):

What are like, maybe a few other specific things that you have done as an owner to, you know, reinforce this culture of caring among your employees?

Terese Fogleman (06:17):

One of the main things is consistency and respect from the beginning. So I'll, I'll tell you that Workstream has been such a help with that. So I moved to working with Workstream about about 13 months ago after working with a different company for many years. But the ability to communicate quickly with potential employees in that turnaround time was great. And I, I stayed away from anything that had to do with texting for such a long time because it was just strange and digital, you know, text 1, 2, 3 and then press no, then stop if you, but workstream was able to make that personal so we can text and respond immediately. So as soon as it pops up on my phone, you know, reaching out to that person, letting them know we're interested. And oftentimes a personal text sent along that says, Hey, your resume looks fantastic, please come in and interview.

(07:23):

So from the initial contact, there's a, a caring human element that's a part of it. And that goes through everything. So we, when when people communicate with us, we always respond. Now, not a hundred percent of the time, 'cause there's some people perhaps that we do not want to come in for an interview, but I would say all of those that we want to come in for an interview, they know that there's a person on the other side of that transaction, we have a name and we wanna meet you. So it immediately establish, establishes warmth, you know, and then our interviews are, we take them seriously. We sit down with a person, we're there with them, we're on time. We have their resume in front of us, we have questions to ask them that I, I create the questions and change them up every like six months.

(08:20):

And they're questions to get to know that person. And, and they're aimed at their age group. What's your favorite type of music? What, what are you binging on right now on Netflix? You know, where's the most interesting place you've ever visited? Who do you admire most in the world? So we're asking them things that they can relate to so that we can get to know them a little bit as a person. We're not just saying, so can you, can you start work tomorrow? You know? So we establish that personal connection. It follows through, you know, if they're hired, they are paired with our onboarding specialist, and then they go straight into our training department where we have training managers that work with them. And everything is very laid out and understandable. And if you don't understand it, there's someone who will help you understand it.

(09:15):

Once you get into our organization, you're not alone, <laugh>. And we let them know that, you know, you're not alone. We we're not pampering them, but we're saying, Hey, we're here. We're here. We'll help you along the way. So, and that level of respect, it means so much to people in Gen Z because one of the things that I hear as the most common reason for people to leave a job is that they just had no communication with the managers. That people, they, they didn't receive their schedules on time. They didn't have any consistency in the schedule that they received. You know, they went into a job and said, I need 40 hours a week 'cause I'm paying my own rent. And then they consistently get scheduled eight hours a week just massive miscommunication. And so that, that, that's not what they're experiencing with us. So a lot of people are like, yeah, I like this.

Daniel Blaser (10:19):

Yeah. I mean, it, I it makes sense that they do. I, I love so much of what you said about, you know, just establishing respect from the very beginning, that very first text message, that first touch point, and then having that persist throughout the, you know, the interview process, onboarding et cetera. Because I, you know, I, I agree with you. I think you, you see all these headlines about Gen Z, this and Gen Z, that, and you know, before that it was Gen Y or millennials or, you know, there, there's always these kind of articles that pop up and try to paint, you know, different generations as one way or another. But ultimately we all value respect. And I think most of us will reciprocate when we feel like we're given respect. And I, I think it's kind of, you know, painting, painting someone in a corner, if you're you, you dismiss them or you think that they don't need, they, they don't need that respect in as they're, you know, applying for a job because oh, they're, you know, they're only 20 or whatever it is. Like, you're kind of starting off on a, on the wrong foot. So anyway, I just love, I love what you, what you said about doing exactly the opposite, showing them respect the whole way through.

Terese Fogleman (11:29):

And we find that majority of people who work for us show that respect to us too. And, and it builds a culture of respect from the ground up. Because one of the things I tell people in the interview is, we are going to respect your time. We're going to respect your availability, and we ask for respect from you. You know, if you have to change your availability, let us know communicate with us, we will work with you. We will be flexible as far as we can. Because there are situations where someone, of course, doesn't tell the truth in an interview. They say, I wanna work 40 hours a week, and then you hire them at a certain wage rate, and then two weeks later they say, oh, sorry, I've got another job. I'm only gonna work 10 hours a week, but you know, I really need you to keep me at that full-time wage rate. And so in situations like that, that's not respect coming from the other side, other side. And we're just like, we, we can't accommodate that.

Daniel Blaser (12:33):

Maybe we jump into number two which it was kind of this predictability in scheduling. So, you know, let, let's talk about maybe like what that, that means specifically, and how does, you know predictable scheduling kind of counter the, the, you know, the other option, which is like haphazard scheduling. How are they kind of different? And, and maybe why, why do some stores? Some businesses end up in kind of the haphazard scheduling rather than the predictable scheduling?

Terese Fogleman (13:09):

I have been a part of scheduling for hourly employees for 19 years now. And I, I've learned a lot about scheduling how to actually make a schedule, how to work around schedule request. And I've had anywhere from a staff of 50 that I was scheduling to cover six days a week to a staff of 125. So it is very challenging, but I would say there are a couple of foundational things about scheduling. The very first one is that you must have a dedicated, committed, and intelligent person who does the scheduling. It might be more than one person in your business. If you're the owner in your business is small, it might be you, but I would recommend that it not be you, because to build a good schedule takes four to six hours a week. When you have a staff of about 70.

(14:11):

When you go over that number, it takes longer. And a schedule is, is a lot like a, like that game that we played when we were kids Tetris, you know, where you've got the, the blocks coming down it is, is a puzzle every week because every week you're starting out with people wanting different things. So the, the mechanics of the schedule are difficult, and to leave it to just anyone who has time to do it in a business, you're, you're, you're just gonna be shooting yourself in the foot every week. And then the other thing about a schedule is it is what your employee depends upon. And if you don't come through for your employee, they are going to resent you and you can't get mad at them for resenting you when you're not fulfilling your end of the promise. So a, a schedule is like, it is the foundation for a business with hourly employees.

(15:16):

So a committed person, very important. One or two of those people in your business who makes that schedule every week, or as we do now, we schedule two weeks out. That works really well because the, our team members love it. It gives them more flexibility, they get that schedule and they're like, okay, I know what I'm doing for the next two weeks. This is great. But I think this is something that a lot of employers will, or, and HR directors will resonate with that if you get the wrong person doing your schedule, it can cause major cultural issues in your business. Because people can use a schedule to gain popularity, they can use it to do favors, and they can use it to punish other employees that they don't care for. I've seen that done in my business and I had to take the schedule away from that person.

(16:10):

So you need to have somebody who's gonna be objective and fair if you don't have an HR director than just a, a manager that you know is not gonna be petty. Because people who make the schedule, they hold a lot of power in a business. So but it, it's just very important to figure out what your grid work is gonna be, figure out what your consistency is going to be, whether that's one week, whether that's two weeks, and choosing a trustworthy objective person to do the schedule. And again, if you're running the business I don't know that I would encourage you to be that person because a schedule takes, it just takes time. And, but it's so important because when you get that piece down, it creates such consistency in your business. And of course, you'll always have employees that will bump up against that.

(17:08):

They won't wanna put in their schedule request on time, they won't wanna respect time off or they'll just come to you and say, I have a trip to Disney. I already bought the tickets and I'm leaving. I don't care. But those are, those become more in, those become less and less issues and you just are with an organized schedule, you're chugging ahead and you just deal with the little issues as they come up. But I will tell you, that was a game changer when I realized when I had to take the schedule away from somebody years ago and I started doing it, and I was like, yeah, this is, this is gonna change the culture no more. Hey, you're my friend, make sure I get every Saturday night off. You know, it's it creates fairness for the entire staff to have an objective person doing that weekly or biweekly schedule.

Daniel Blaser (18:05):

I feel like that's a good segue into our third principle or, you know, our third tactic, which is flexibility. So can you talk a little bit about, I feel like there, it's very related to the scheduling piece, but how does the, the flexibility connect to the predictable scheduling?

Terese Fogleman (18:24):

Well, I think that my situation is unique being in a college town. So, but I know there's many businesses in our town that rely mostly on people in high school and college to staff them. So if you are in that situation you learn to adapt your scheduling model to that. So it's like, I have two tracks in, in my business, I have people who work full time. I have a group of them who, this is their career and you know, it's set, we've got Monday through Friday and two weeks of vacation, a year paid time off, and they're there the rest of the time. And then this other larger group that they're going to have one schedule in the fall, then they may leave for six weeks over Christmas break. And then they have I believe they have two more semesters.

(19:22):

I went to a college with quarters, so I still get that mixed up. I think it's two semesters at university and three at a quarter. But in the, in the, you know, winter, spring, they're, they have another schedule and then many of them go home for three months. So I learned a very long time ago. I have to ebb and flow with that. And that's why I focus so much on hiring, because I find out, you know, months ahead of time, I'm asking people, what's your schedule? And this is how we'll schedule you, and then are you leaving for the summer? And you know, I know that by mid-April and then I, I decide how many people I need to hire and I start hiring so that I'm not shocked when summer comes along. 'cause My very first year Christmas break came along and like 20 people told me they were leaving.

(20:20):

And I, and I was like, what <laugh> what <laugh> I only had 50 staff members. And I was like, oh my gosh, I guess I'll be living at the store and the children will be having Christmas at the store this year because I'm gonna be working around the clock. So I only got caught by surprise one time, and then I said, okay, I, my schedule is the university schedule. So as the university goes, so we go, so we actually have the schedules for the, the two universities in town plus the high school. We have those up in our office and we use those when we, when we're looking at scheduling, because we're in a town that has the university has a, a great football team and you know, we are scheduling around those days too, football Saturdays. So it's really just being conscientious of who are your employees, what type of town are you living in, what are the events? It's having very much a global view so that you can organize your business accordingly.

Daniel Blaser (21:36):

Thank you for listening to On the Clock. For more info, visit workstream.us/podcast. As a reminder, I've included a link in the show notes to watch Theresa's complete webinar for free. Until next time, we're clocking out.