Cupbop President and COO Dok Kwon

Daniel Blaser (00:06):

Hello, and welcome to On the Clock, presented by Workstream. If you care about hiring, managing, and paying hourly workers, this is the podcast for you. I'm Daniel Blaser, and today we're clocking in with Doc Kwan president and COO of Cup bop. The Korean Quick Service restaurant currently has 57 locations in the US and 170 plus locations in Indonesia. And wherever there's a cup bop, you'll find a ton of raving fans. Doc and I discuss how they've created such a special culture and the unique ways that they screen applicants to reinforce their fun, playful brand. We also chat about his experience being on Shark Tank and how starting a food truck was so important to Cup Bob's success. Enjoy. Thank you so much for being here and I'm really excited to chat a little bit.

Dok Kwon (00:56):

Well, thanks for your time.

Daniel Blaser (00:58):

To kick things off can you just briefly share kind of the backstory and history of Cup Bop? When did it start? Why? Some of that good stuff?

Dok Kwon (01:06):

So, cup Bop started in May of 2013 in Salt Lake City as a food truck. And I wasn't actually the founder. I met the founder very early on. I was actually the founder cup Ops one of very, very first customers when they just had opened their truck. And I was a big fan, raving fan. But yeah, it's been over 10 years now. Last year we had our 10 year anniversary and we've, we've now gone from a food truck to, we are 57 locations here in the States between seven different states and we have a lot of locations in Indonesia. We have over 170 now at this point in Indonesia. Just trying to yeah, trying to grow and grow responsibly and, and, and with the goal of becoming a national brand.

Daniel Blaser (02:04):

Yeah. Well, you're well on the way. Are those 57 US locations, are those all corporate owned or have you guys opened up to franchising?

Dok Kwon (02:14):

The answer is the majority of the stores are still corporate. We haven't really officially, you know, opened, opened it up for franchising in any real way. We have one franchisee that was actually grandfathered in before my time that now operates 23 stores, but we did decide, at least for now we, we've, we've decided to not pursue kind of individual single unit franchises. We are potentially you know, testing the waters on working together and partnering up with very strong multi-unit franchising groups. And that's something that, that we're testing the waters on. But that's where we're at right now.

Daniel Blaser (03:02):

I did wanna ask, I think, did you say there's 170 locations in Indonesia?

Dok Kwon (03:06):

Yes.

Daniel Blaser (03:06):

That's a, that's a ton of locations. Why has that been one other location that you've been focusing on? And maybe, you know, briefly I'd love to hear like what's the difference of like, growing in the United States versus growing in Indonesia? Like what, what's harder, what's easier? That kind of stuff.

Dok Kwon (03:24):

The answer is our, our, our partners who are, who are the best in the world. F and b Indonesia, our partner out in Indonesia, they actually do essentially all of the operations out there <laugh>. And so, you know, give credit where credit's due, I have to give them full credit. We're, we're out there for training, new menu updates, things like that. You know, once or twice a year. But all the credit goes to our partners. We, we are very fortunate to, to be able to team up with a wonderful, wonderful partner. They're, they're a big f and b group out there in Indonesia. And yeah, it crazy enough how this whole deal deal came together also was through the Cup op truck. They, they were, you know, two of the students happened to be attending the University of Utah at the time, were big fans of the Cup Up truck.

(04:23):

They were, they were coming to the truck every chance they could. And you know, they said, come to Indonesia with us. And they, you know, the founder ended up visiting there. And, and only then did he find out that these two students, they come from a very, very well renowned family out there in Indonesia. And yeah, the little brother Devin is now the CEO of, of the whole f and b division, which is kind of crazy. And that's, that's how our relationship has been. And, and it's, I I, I wouldn't change a thing and yeah, we've been just very lucky is real, the, the, the real honest answer.

Daniel Blaser (05:03):

So maybe you've already kind of started to answer this question, but workstream, like, one of our main office hubs is in Lehigh, Utah, so Utah is like a special place for, for us. I would love to hear why Utah kind of played, how it kind of played a special role in the success of Cup BP and the growth like yeah, what is it about Utah, maybe some of the unique factors that, that contributed to that the

Dok Kwon (05:28):

Kapa brand, the truck started in Utah, you know, the, the founder had come from Korea and was living in Utah, and, and so she happened to be here. I also lived in Utah you know, the vast majority of my life. And, you know, even though I didn't join Kpop right off the bat you know, it, it's always had a very special place for both. Yeah, it's, it's a great economy, number one. As, as you guys probably see it firsthand and, and there's a lot of talent, right? You know, I, I went to BYU Go Cougs and, and just, you know, great economy, great talent, a lot of awesome people. And then people are just really nice. They, they really accepted our brand with open arms and, and we've been able to really kind of grow once we're at a time starting here, and it's still our hub market, you know, we have the most locations by far here in Utah. And so yeah, we, we, we love the market.

Daniel Blaser (06:39):

So one of the things that I think is kind of fun is that you were on Shark Tank. I'd love to hear just briefly like what that experience was like, what was maybe the number one thing that you guys learned in that experience?

Dok Kwon (06:53):

Yeah, but it was fun. I actually had a blast being on Shark Tank. I actually used to be an investor myself before I joined Kop. And so I was very used to being on the other side of the table, and it was actually my first time in a, in a, in a real way, going out there and, and, and pitching our brand from the entrepreneur side. And yeah, I, I, I thought it was a ton of fun interacting with those sharks. I mean, you know, they only end up airing 15 minute segments, right? Per, per kind of brand. But you're in there for, we were in there for over an hour and it gets, you know, it gets really intense. It's very real, and they don't know anything about you until, you know, you literally walk in and you start explaining your business. The biggest, biggest takeaway, honestly, was a confirmation that, hey, this business has what it takes to, to take it to a national level. And then, and you know, I obviously am, am, am the biggest believer that you'll find out there, which is why I joined Kpop. But it was good to get that confirmation from all of the sharks there

Daniel Blaser (08:13):

For the, for those that maybe didn't know that you were on that what, that it sounds like some one of the Sharks invested, right? Is that the outcome? If I remember right,

Dok Kwon (08:22):

Yes. Post the show things ended up falling through.

Daniel Blaser (08:28):

Okay,

Dok Kwon (08:28):

Interesting. Unfortunately. but you know, it, it, it just comes down to look on the show. All you talk about is price, and you agree on price. You know, after the show's done, you get on, you know, get on you start working into their, you know, with their teams and, and there could be a lot more asks, right? That was not discussed. And I thought, you know, we, we ended up parting ways in a very amicable way, and it ended up being, I think, you know, really good for us. So.

Daniel Blaser (09:01):

Yeah. Well, like you said, the, the validation definitely. And then obviously the exposure, right? So many, probably millions of people now know the brand Cup Ops Yep. Maybe didn't know before, so, sounds like Absolutely. Definitely. Yeah. Upside. so you mentioned, you know, the, the beginnings of Cup Op were all around the food truck. And I was just wondering, do you have any specific lessons you think that you've taken from the fact that Cup Ops started as a food truck, maybe in terms of scaling or, you know, thinking of location, stuff like that? I'd love to hear.

Dok Kwon (09:37):

Yep, absolutely. It's, it, it, I I actually think it's been a huge advantage for us having kind of our roots, you know in a food truck given, you know, you, you only have so much space to work with, and generally so much time too, right? Because it's a lunch rush. You are at a commercial kind of, you know, site where there are a lot of businesses, people come out, right? And they have, you know, a, a a a, a limited, you know, time for lunch. And so, you know, it, it, it naturally set our model to be very efficient. We can operate in very small spaces with, you know, fewer people than, than, you know, perhaps some of our competitors. And that allows us to, you know, have, have great eco economics. At the end of the day, you know, these four wall businesses, it's all about lowering your breakevens and your fixed cost. Because, you know, the model has very high operating leverage. And so, you know, it, it, it, it, it, it's actually been a, a big competitive advantage for us starting you know, from from a food truck.

Daniel Blaser (10:49):

Yeah. So my next question kind of related to scaling is obviously, you know, you said, I think 57 locations, seven different states that's a lot of growth over a decade. And as you know, like workstream is dedicated to helping, you know, mostly quick service restaurants hire so I'd love to hear what sort of challenges you faced in terms of staffing all of these locations as you've scaled.

Dok Kwon (11:16):

Oh, it's, it's always hard, obviously. I, I, I think regardless of, of of industry it's hired, it, it's hard to hire good talent. Traditionally, kind of what we've done and, and to, to this day still has been word of mouth. You know, obviously we have a lot of, you know, teenagers working in our stores friends, bringing friends you know, the platform we've historically used has been indeed social media has actually, you know, helped a lot. And, and, and, you know, it was actually a byproduct of just having our social media because it wasn't necessarily for hiring. But since we have a pretty, you know, young, energetic, cool brand we have a lot of, you know, for example, on TikTok, we have like 750,000 followers on TikTok, and a lot of them are Gen Zs, and you know, they, they, they, they vibe with our brand, and so they'll, they'll apply. We've actually seen a lot of benefit from that. But it's always tough. Like GSR, it's the, the restaurant industry is notorious for high turnover, things like that. And that's something that, that we continue to battle with every day.

Daniel Blaser (12:33):

Well, that's cool though, that you have that Awesome following on TikTok, that's probably somewhat rare, at least to have like that much brand loyalty among Gen Z. I'd love to hear, like, as you are interviewing and training team members what sorts of things do you prioritize or like, are there specific things like, you know, kind of within your culture that are like, oh, this is the most important to look for as we're trying to hire?

Dok Kwon (12:58):

For us, it's, it's energy and, and the hospitality mindset, you know, it's, it's all about attitude, right? At the end of the day. And, and, you know, we, you know, if we can have the best of both worlds, it would be somebody with high energy 'cause that a person like that would, would fit very well with our brand and, and instantly just meld into our culture. But, you know, obviously the most important thing I think is, is, is having the right attitude, right? You can, that's something that you can't teach. So yeah, I think one of the, you know, first questions that we, we actually, you know, try to always lead off with is, you know, are you happy? You know, that's our first question. And, and you know, kind of people kind of that have that happy virus that are always smiling that have that energy willing to help out guests and that, that, that is honestly the most important thing for us at, at, at the, you know, at the store level.

(14:03):

And so we try to, you know, it's hard to, it's hard to obviously, you know, always find people like that. And it just goes back to our culture of being a food truck. Cup Pop was known to be a very kind of energetic, loud, like these crazy Asian guys, you know, food truck, the founder used to be a B-Boy, you know, he used to be a break dancer, and so he used to always be dancing in front of the truck. And that's, you know, when I used to always go to the cup hop truck, that's what he was doing. And so that just kind of over time became our brand. And so, yeah, I, I, I think that's kind of the short answer is, is energy and attitude.

Daniel Blaser (14:42):

I think one of the things that sticks out to me is Cup Ops, fun branding and messaging and just, you know, like there is an amount of kind of energy and excitement there, excite there. How do you make sure, and, and maybe it's just that energy that you said, but how do you make sure that like your team members are all kind of reinforcing, like the fun, I guess, of Cup Up?

Dok Kwon (15:04):

You know, that's one thing that I'm really confident about, you know, especially over the long term. We still obviously have a lot of work to do. But I think it, it really, the tone needs to come down from the top, right? You can't say, Hey, we have fun, culture, have fun. It, it doesn't work, it doesn't work that way, right? But, you know, from, from our leadership team, especially Jung, how we created a brand as I just discussed you know, I, I'll give you an example. We were just at an, at a recent opening in a city called Moore in Oklahoma, and we were there with Jung, I was there with Jung, and we had our brand opening where we do 5 99 special for the grand opening day and junk for the whole day, you know, seven, eight hours. He was out on the street with the 5 99 banner just dancing with our crew.

(16:00):

And, and, and that's something that, you know, you can, you know, you can create a clever brand through TikTok marketing, you know, this and that, but at the end of the day, for it to last long term, it has to be genuine and it has to jive with the consumers. And I think, you know, we ultimately have to do that internally as well, first what right. With our people. And so, you know, we try to have a lot of fun. You know, we, we've, we've tried a number of different things. For example, we used to do this these podcasts we call Bobcat, where we'll get on, you know, we'll get on video, we'll, we'll do dumb things, we'll have fun, and then we'll, you know, we'll update all of our people within the company. The things that are going on at Kapa also, we try to hold a lot of fun competitions, you know, within, you know, within the company, our promotions, things like that. And we just try to not take ourselves too seriously. Everybody at the company, we try to keep a pretty flat organization, you know, we have a lot of fun here around the office as well, you know, and, and that's just how brand started. And so I, I think the key is obviously training is important, right? But just the culture itself I think has to come from the top. And that's something that we really put a lot of emphasis on.

Daniel Blaser (17:21):

So let's say someone else is listening to this conversation and they have an idea and they're like, man, I hearing about Cup bop and their success, that's inspirational. I, I'd love to open my own food truck or even my own quick service restaurant location, several locations one day. What would be like the number one piece of advice you'd give someone in that position?

Dok Kwon (17:44):

It's a tough business. It's absolutely a tough business. One that could be extremely re rewarding. I think the best piece of advice, I probably wouldn't start with the food truck now, right? I think back then it worked in that market when it was a definitely a, there was a big food truck boom. And it was more of a rarity, at least in Utah 10 years ago. But food truck isn't absolutely brutal, brutal business and something that you can't, you know, really scale. Hence why we also, you know, converted over to brick and mortar stores at one point. So I probably would start with as low risk as possible, right? Find a location that, you know, it's probably a second gen, you know, restaurant locations where the build outs are, you know, minimal. Hopefully you can just convert it and use as much as existing, you know, infrastructure and existing equipment in, in this space to start with as low risk as possible and try to also, I, it depends on the, I guess also the concept as well.

(18:59):

But, you know, try to start in, in, in a smaller location, right? I do think at the end of the day, this business comes down to, number one is always survival. You gotta survive until you can get your brands out there. And, and, and you know what, what most of the brands have trouble when they start off as they scale is, is it's, it's hard to survive the first few years. And so really dial down your risk as much as you can and, and give yourself enough runway to get your messaging and your brand out there. I, I, I think that that is what I would do if we were to start, you know, another brand today, it'd be, okay, let's find a second gen location. Let's lower our risk, let's make sure that we have a good handle on our, around our breakevens, and come up with a strategy of how you can win. You know, it's a, it's a brutally competitive business. Obviously, there's not a lot of barriers to entry, things like that, but that also means for the new entrant, there's always room to, to, to overthrow the, you know, existing establishments and, and really shine, you know, just like, you know, the fact that cup hop from a started from a food truck and, and we've grown to where we are kind of shows us that it's absolutely possible in this space. So yeah, that would probably be my best 2 cents that I could provide.

Daniel Blaser (20:34):

Thank you for listening to On the Clock. For more info, visit workstream.us/podcast. Until next time, we're clocking out.