Why QSR workers quit, and how you can fix it

Daniel Blaser (00:00):

Hello everyone, my name is Daniel and I'm with Workstream. It's my pleasure to be here today with, with Dr. Kathy Gosser and she has an incredible range of experience and some really great recommendations for you as you're working on your 2024 goals, most particularly with retaining and engaging your workforce. So rather than me attempt to try to introduce her, 'cause like I said, she just has this awesome background and all this great experience. I'm gonna let you do that, Kathy, if you wouldn't mind.

Dr. Kathy Gosser (00:30):

Well, thank you. And first of all, Daniel, thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure to talk about employee retention and how do you engage employees, so I'm thrilled to talk about that. So my career, I started at Kentucky Fried Chicken as a mystery shopper many years ago and actually stayed there 35 years. So I never expected to stay there that long, but it was a wonderful career. As I say, the career dreams are made of. I quickly earned many promotions and ended up being the director of a number of things. One, being back of house evaluations, I did some food safety audits, customer satisfaction, working with team members in recognition programs, education, training and development. And I had the opportunity to lead a franchise advisory council for quite a few years. So a wonderful career along the way. Picked up a lot of education MBA PhD and decided I wanted to teach in my encore career and I called it encore career 'cause Encore means the best. So I've been at the University of Louisville for almost five years and I teach management courses, predominantly franchise management, graduate, undergraduate, and non-credit. So I'm not sure how much more you want me to talk about my U of L career. I'd be happy to talk a little bit more, but I think you're going to jump on some of that.

Daniel Blaser (01:46):

Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, kind of just to go back to like your experience with KFC and whatnot for anyone watching this, you can see why the second I started talking with Kathy, I was like, okay. She has a lot of really great experience that I think work stream's customers and, and those that use work stream. It seems like just the perfect alignment. So I'm just so excited to jump into some of this. I'd love to hear about the Yum Center for Global Franchise Excellence. What is that and what is your role there?

Dr. Kathy Gosser (02:17):

So actually when I went off to my encore career, I left my wonderful Yum Brands family and started this new venture. And within two years, a number of events happened in the US that really caused Yum Brands to pause and say, we want to do something, we want to make a difference in this world. So they pledged a large amount of money, I think it was a hundred million around the world, to level the playing field for women and people of color to really have an opportunity. And they were looking at education, entrepreneurship and de and I, so we have education and we have franchise education. So we work together and they established through a generous endowment our center. And our center is focused on empowering communities to build and sustain generational through franchising with a focus on women and people of color. Though we obviously work with everyone, so it's open to all, but it was really a huge effort on Yum's part and they have done so many things in the two years that we've had the center to really demonstrate how they feel about making a difference in this world.

Daniel Blaser (03:19):

Yeah, that's really cool. I, when you started to tell me about this, I I just thought it was really impressive because, you know, a lot of companies, they're, they're trying to make a difference. And so what do they do? You know, maybe they write out a check or they make a PR announcement or, or something like that. But it, I just thought it was really cool that it's like, no, you know, entrepreneurship and franchising actually is so powerful that by giving more access to like those tools, we can really make a big difference that way. Right. Rather than just kind of, you know, doing the thing that looks good on, on paper or whatever.

Dr. Kathy Gosser (03:53):

You know, you are exactly right Daniel. And one of the things about franchising that I love is that it can create that generational wealth and it can change communities. So think about it this way, if you start up say a haircutting salon, just yourself, you may impact your direct family, but that's probably about it. And when it's your time to leave this earth, that business probably goes away With franchising, it's very different because not only are you starting something that can be passed down to generations, but you can also hire folks from those communities and really change the face of a community through a franchise establishment. So that's what really gets me excited and to think about all the opportunities that are out there to really change our landscape. And yum. Their support has, they've just been phenomenal. They believe the same.

Daniel Blaser (04:39):

Yeah. so what is your specific role at the Yum Center?

Dr. Kathy Gosser (04:45):

Ah, that's a good question. So I teach, so I'm responsible for the content creation and teaching as well. And we have a number of wonderful adjuncts. 'cause I can't teach all the courses. We have a graduate level certificate in franchise management. It's a stackable credential with an MBA, so that's a pretty good product. But we started this undergraduate curriculum. We have a a c certificate there as well. And that's been the real surprise is the students are signing up for these classes. They're at max capacity, almost the, the moment we start registration because students wanna learn about this opportunity. Probably the last statistic I saw was something like 60% of students today wanna own their own business and franchising's a way to do that, but have an established platform ready for you, a business model that already works in a reputable name. So they're very excited about it.

(05:36):

And then we have a non-credit version with the International Franchise Association that we've coup, we've partnered with them. So I manage all of the content creation, all the content revisions, as well as the adjuncts that we use to help us. Part-Time instructors help us teach this as well. Because if you think about it, you really need to have a strong franchise background to be really great at teaching this. And then we do a number of other things with yum. Through the years we've done yum franchise accelerator, we're getting ready to start our third one, which is a collaboration with Howard University to help MBA students have an opportunity at franchising. So there's a lot that goes on. We have a board of advisors have a podcast on and on. Always exciting.

Daniel Blaser (06:19):

Awesome, awesome. And I, we will talk a little bit more maybe about some of that content that you've been creating. 'cause I, I know that it's, like you said, it's not just for people that are going and trying to get you know, a degree. It's open to a lot of different people, different backgrounds. So maybe we'll talk more about that towards the end. Okay. but I did want to ask you specifically about your dissertation. Because when you told me about the topic in our previous conversation, I was like, okay, we've gotta talk, we gotta go into this a little bit more. This seems all too perfect for what I'm, you know, usually talking to people about work streams, customers and, you know, prospective customers. Like what is the topic or what was the topic of your dissertation? And just kind of gimme a little bit more info about that.

Dr. Kathy Gosser (07:04):

I'd love to. So when I started working on my PhD, it was about the same time that I spent a year in the field running operations. So I was a director of operations and had 10 restaurants reporting to me. And I realized that employee retention and employee engagement, how important it was to getting results. I saw it myself every single day out in the restaurants. I always say it was the best of times and the worst of times, but it was something. So I decided I wanted my topic to be, to investigate why employees stay with us. So the topic was the predictors of intent to stay of the fast food worker, of the hourly fast food worker. And also it's very difficult to get access to hourly employees as a researcher because you have to have them take a survey on the clock. And that's difficult too. So I had a real advantage in that, a wonderful group of franchisees, company restaurants, et cetera, willing to allow me to conduct this survey. So I'm like, how great is that? So put together a survey based on others and it's a long process I won't bore everybody with, but ended up being able to execute that and had over 900 hourly employees respond. So a really nice sample size that brought about some results that surprised me.

Daniel Blaser (08:21):

Yeah. And we'll talk just about those results in just a second, but I wanted to ask before we do what inspired you to choose this particular topic? Like obviously given your background, it was relevant but was there any other reason that this, was this something that you felt like really deserved, you know, extra time and attention?

Dr. Kathy Gosser (08:41):

Oh, absolutely. It's, it's the number one topic that any operator talks about is how do we, we can hire all day long, how do we retain 'em and how do we make sure we have the right ones? And so I had been involved in a number of discussions with operators on that through the years. And I saw I wanted to do, I saw that it was really gonna make a difference and I wanted to do research that could be used at KFC and Yum brands. That was important to me. They sponsored my research, they obviously sponsored my education. I wanted to give back in that way. Plus I was really interested in it. Employee retention is something that continues to interest me to this day.

Daniel Blaser (09:18):

Yeah, absolutely. So we don't need to beat around the bush any longer. What did you find was the number one factor that would influence quick service restaurant employees to leave?

Dr. Kathy Gosser (09:28):

This was the surprise because I thought it would be how the manager treats me, which was important. Don't get me wrong. That was my supposition though, is that that's what we would find out. That I hypothesized that would be it. And then a lot of people are like, oh, it's really pay. But you know, you and I both know that pay pays a part of it. You have to pays the cost of entry. But I had a, I had a manager once who told me he lost somebody be, 'cause they got a job making more money down the street. I said, well, how much more did they make a nickel an hour? How many hours do they work? 20. So you really think they left you for a dollar a week? So we had a really good conversation about that. What we found out is that what I found out is that it is imp it was workload.

(10:10):

And when you hear workload, you think what on earth is workload? So it was interesting because the best dissertations had done dissertations. So I didn't explore that in the dissertation. I explored it afterwards through some focus groups. And what senior management thought was that the back of house was too complex and it was just too hard for employees. That was, that was their hypothesis. But when we went out and talked to employees and operators, it wasn't that at all. It was two things. One, either you didn't schedule enough labor for the restaurant to run properly, right? You just didn't schedule enough. And we all know the top two costs in a restaurant's p and l are labor and cost of goods. So you can see crunching labor is definitely gonna help you be more profitable short term, I would argue. The second thing is you have enough people scheduled, but they don't show up. So all the call outs. So basically workload meant I'm doing the job of two people or maybe three. And that was the biggest issue, not the complexities that evolved in the back of the house.

Daniel Blaser (11:11):

Very interesting. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. I wanted to ask you you know, you, you kind of said this was surprising to you. One other thing that I've, I've had another conversation, another webinar months ago, and they were saying that a, a big factor based on some research they were looking at to why hourly employees leave is related to opportunity as well. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. I'm kind of, you know, off the cuff question, but I just was kind of thinking about that. How do you think that this, you know, this concept of being overworked maybe has a dotted line to also not feeling like there's enough opportunity for advancement or, you know, that kind of thing.

Dr. Kathy Gosser (11:53):

I think that can absolutely be the case because today's workforce, if you look at Gen Z and what motivates them, they want training and development to move forward. And if you have an overworked staff and you're not scheduling enough, they're not gonna get any training. They're not gonna have a path to advancement. So all of that really does work together well. And I think today's generations also, when I ask them, how long do you think you'll stay at your first employer? At your first employer? I ask my undergraduates, it's usually about three to four years. And then they'll move on. Well, I gotta tell you, when I ran restaurants, if I could keep someone three to four years, I would've been pretty happy at an hourly rate. But I do think not having the time to help people develop and mentor them to get to the next level or even to understand what is available in a retail restaurant or retail establishment could be a definitely an offshoot of this.

Daniel Blaser (12:46):

Yeah. So you mentioned, you know, there's kind of two primary factors that contribute to workers feeling overworked. There's the, you know, the not having enough people scheduled, which, you know, you mentioned that that can save you a little bit of money upfront, but there are long-term costs to doing that. And then just workers not showing up. So both of those things to me, like if you think, okay, my, you know, my team is feeling overworked, both of those feel pretty intuitive of like, you can point to these as reasons, right? But if you were to kind of go to the next level or kind of look at, okay, well how do we explain those two things or how do we di dissect those? What are some other factors that you think are kind of percolating up and contributing to workers feeling overworked?

Dr. Kathy Gosser (13:35):

Oh, good. Insightful question. Well, let's take one at a time. So starting with not scheduling enough people, I think sometimes the pressure that's put on restaurant manager leaders or the next level to make their labor cost, the unintended consequence is that you don't have enough. You don't have enough on the front line to service your customers. And it's tough, especially if you're a publicly held company and that you have to bring the numbers in. It's, it's tough to figure out how do I mitigate that challenge? So I'm telling you to deliver an expert customer experience, but on the other hand, cut labor. Cut labor cut labor. So those messages, somehow it's going to take strong leaders who say, we're gonna put enough labor and see what happens to the top line sales. That if that, if the top line sales grow, it's worth that investment.

(14:24):

But I've yet to see many above, many above restaurant leaders that are willing to, to take that chance. So I think that's causes that issue is the pressure, and of course the pressure's tied to bonus, it's tied to job security, et cetera, all the things. So that's, I think that's what drives that one when it comes to people not showing up, that's a direct reflection of engagement. If you don't care about the people you work with, you're just not gonna show up. It doesn't matter to you. So I think that's where the employee maybe doesn't feel valued, doesn't feel their job is worthwhile, doesn't feel that it even matters. They don't have that as, as Gallup likes to talk about that friend at work, you know, Gallup has that survey that has demonstrated, having a friend at work is, is really the most important. 'cause You don't wanna let that person down so you'll show up. So I think all of that's interrelated, but making sure you have an environment where people wanna come and be a part of will have them come when at least they're on the schedule.

Daniel Blaser (15:20):

Yeah. And you know, thinking about it, especially, you know, not having workers show up, I, you can really kind of understand how that problem would compound upon itself, right? Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. The more people that don't show up, the more that everyone that does show up is feeling like they're stretched too thin. And then it just kind of, you know, and then harbor's resentment and other things that you talked about. Like there is, you can see how a location could just kind of like lose control of that situation,

Dr. Kathy Gosser (15:46):

Right? Well, it becomes, and it becomes a vicious spiral. So then it becomes like, well, I don't wanna show up either. Well, they didn't show up for me, so I just won't show up for them. So it just continues and I definitely have seen that happen.

Daniel Blaser (15:57):

Yeah. I'm going to ask one other question that just came to the top of my head. But if, have you seen through your experience in your career or, or speaking with other franchise owners, have you seen someone successfully kind of reverse that vicious cycle or that spiral?

Dr. Kathy Gosser (16:18):

Oh, 100%. There are so many great managers out there who were able to build wonderful results based on how they treat the team. And I, and I'll tell you a quick story. So I used to lead a, I used to lead a program called the Best of the Best at KFC. It was wonderful. The top managers were taken to an all exclusive trip with it. They could bring a guest treated just like the royalty that they deserved to be treated. I mean, everything was first class. And this was interesting. We would give the managers stipends, like if they would go to the parks, say we'd go to Disney and we would give them some money for launch, et cetera. Well, they would come back and they would use that money on gifts for their team, and they would've eaten like nothing. I mean, and they would literally use all that money and buy all these gifts for the team.

(17:01):

And we realized they wanted their team there. They wanted their team to be a part of it. So then we got smart and we sent a big team gift, which made all the difference in the world. So we sent a big team gift. We still did the trip, but we did that. But those managers care so much about their team. They realize they're the winners, they're the reason that they have the results they have. So the ones that share there's the best of the best manager at KFC so many years on end. It's not funny, the highest sales, et cetera. She does a Christmas party every Christmas and they do these crazy games and she videotapes it and they all stay 'cause they wanna come to the Christmas party. So she, her, the way she drives retention is just crazy through fun. I was at a, at a com competitor type restaurant, but it was still a chicken restaurant.

(17:44):

And the employees were having fun. They just opened up here in Louisville. This is some years back. And I said, why do you stay here? Why do you like it so much? And here's what they told me, Daniel, wait till you hear this. Well, we have music in the back and we get a dance when we go back there. I get a dance. Yeah, we can just all go down there, back there and have like a one minute dance party, and then we're all energized and we come back out. I was struck by the brilliance of that. How much does that cost? Zero. But they built that and they built that feeling of fun and engagement and comradery, and we're a team and those are the ones that can turn it around.

Daniel Blaser (18:17):

That's cool. That's a, that's a great example that I have never heard before either. So, but it, hey, it does definitely make sense. I can see that, that

Dr. Kathy Gosser (18:25):

It does.

Daniel Blaser (18:26):

So, you know, it's been a, a few years since you wrote your dissertation and you found that, you know, this, the importance of workers not feeling overworked. What, if anything, do you think has changed in the meantime? We've obviously had some really kind of unpredictable last couple of years when it comes to the labor force and whatnot.

Dr. Kathy Gosser (18:47):

That's such an interesting question. And I always ask my, my undergraduate students who work in fast food, I will often ask them, tell me what really frustrates you at work. And typically it's this, people call out that we're always stuck. We're doing too much work. And I'm just shocked by it. But I think what has changed though one of the things that has changed is that folks expect more flexibility. And it's tough for restaurant managers to be flexible when they're writing a schedule. But I also should have mentioned the best of the best managers. And scheduling came out in the top, one of the top reasons as well, not the top reason. But to say that you have somebody that can only work one night a week, A lot of, a lot of folks will say, I don't want you, but if this person is so fantastic, those best managers would find a way to, to say, yes, we'll take you.

(19:34):

And then they'd end up finding a way to work another shift. So being flexible around scheduling and versus my way or the highway makes a huge difference. And I think one thing that has never changed is just feeling appreciated that, hey, the work I do matters. You care about me saying hello to me when I walk in. Thank you. When I leave, letting me know I did a good job. 'cause The fact of the matter remains sometimes people don't get that at home. So if managers can understand appreciation, helping people understand why their work matters, that's still gonna win. And that was in the top as well. Yeah. It wasn't the top, but it was in the top.

Daniel Blaser (20:09):

Yeah. That's interesting. Do you think that since you wrote your dissertation, would you say that workers are, I don't know the right term, maybe we'll say less forgiving, or they're, they're less likely to kind of stick around and say, well, we'll see if things get better for, you know, an extended period of time? Or do you, I mean, I mean, this is just speculation mm-hmm <affirmative>. I'm just wondering what you, what you kind of think has, is there just maybe a little bit more of like, well, things aren't working out here. I'll go look for another opportunity.

Dr. Kathy Gosser (20:39):

I think they are much quicker to look for another opportunity. And just hearing from my students that if they're not happy, they're gonna leave. And what, what I really appreciate about this generation is that they want a work life balance. And if their work life is terrible, they will leave. And my generation was a little bit different. We would stick it out, we'd rough it out, right? They're not gonna do that. And so I think knowing that, but they're also unbelievable workers, unbelievably bright, technologically advanced, like nobody's business. And so they're just wonderful to have in the workforce. But knowing how to work with this generation is important because they're the ones who are, that they're the ones we're talking about now, there's another one coming right after them. So the technology piece, I think one of the things if I were working in the management role now is understanding their use of technology and the fact that they like to have their phones on them. And some folks, some folks say, you can't have your phone on you. I, I personally struggle with that a bit because I know how important those pieces of technology are to them. But I think that's gonna be something to keep your eye on.

Daniel Blaser (21:50):

Yeah. so most of the people that are watching this webinar, they are day in and day out. They're worried about recruiting, hiring, and retaining hourly workforce. The hourly workforce, most of them are probably right in that quick service restaurant and, you know, kind of segment of the industry. So given all of that context, what advice would you give to those that are watching this specifically?

Dr. Kathy Gosser (22:17):

Well that's big question. Daniel <laugh>. So the first thing that's, I think recruiting and hiring, I don't think that's so hard. I think that that's been proven you, that people are able to hire a lot. So I think if you use systems, you find a, a great company to partner with and you have systems, you're able to do that. Now, obviously making sure you get the right person is important. So making sure there's someone that wants to do that work is critical. But then when you have them, the retention's the hard part. It's kinda like losing weight, getting it off the weight sometimes is a lot easier than keeping it off. And it's the same thing. So when you hire folks, keeping them, it's so simple. Things such as welcoming them, making sure their first day is really special versus their first day is, Hey, go stand by Joe and figure out what you're gonna do.

(23:05):

If they get the training and development that they need, they get the clean uni, new uniform, not some old, old uniform, or wear what you have and we'll figure it out. Little things that show you care. And as I said, it doesn't cost a lot, but the, the appreciation, the flexibility, paying attention to their hours. I probably in today's world, I would do a, a bonus for attendance. I would say if you come to every shift on time, you get X, that's where I'd put my bonus money, because I think that would make a difference with, with getting people there. And that's half the battle once they're there. And figuring out how to make, how to make sure they have fun and, and work together makes a big difference. And I think people sometimes think work can't be fun. And I would argue that I think the more fun you can have with work, the better they are, especially in restaurants.

Daniel Blaser (23:53):

Yeah, that, that's great advice. I wanted to make sure that we talked a little bit more about the, the Yum Center for Global Franchise Excellence before we stopped our chat today. Specifically I want to kind of go back into what you were saying about franchising being such a powerful way to build generational wealth. If I have to guess, you know, a lot of people watching this, like if they're not already a franchise business owner, like maybe they're considering that as kind of the next step in their career what would you kind of say to them or how would you kind of continue to, you know, reinforce this concept that, that this is such a great path for those that are looking for that generational wealth? It

Dr. Kathy Gosser (24:38):

Is a great path, and I would tell you, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that working for a franchisor is also a wonderful opportunity since that is what built my life. So wonderful opportunity there. Working for a partner in the industry is also wonderful, as well as working for a franchisee. You know, many franchises offer equity, meaning if you go to work for them after a while, they provide you some ownership. And KFC's largest franchisee does just that. And his senior folks, if you say to them, do you wanna become a franchisee or continue working for him, they're like, oh, no, we wanna stay here because he's just been so generous in sharing his wealth. So there are ways to do it that way, but becoming a franchisee is sometimes I think it sounds really, really hard because being a franchisee of a large restaurant brand does take a lot of money.

(25:29):

It takes a lot of capital. So we always say it's awareness, education, and capital. And education's important to know what you're, what you're learn what, what you're getting into, right? You definitely need to go in eyes wide open, but there are smaller franchises that you can get in to get started. You could start one and then sell it and, and go to another one, et cetera. So it's not necessary to start with a million dollar investment. There are some, you can get in under 50,000, under 30,000. So that's something to think about. But the reason that it builds generational wealth is that it is something you can pass on. You can bring your family, you can build it, you can continue to grow. Most franchisors want you to have more than one unit, one unit's a job, multiple units is where you build your wealth. Owning one is not gonna do it. It's going to take the multiple. And then even if your family's not interested, you can sell all that work you've done. And that's the, that can be the generational wealth. So some families are interested, not all are, I get that, but it is a way to definitely build upon a proven business model with a name that's been established and the support of that great franchisor.

Daniel Blaser (26:37):

Yeah. maybe, you know, you're, you're starting to convince me, I think I need to, you know, start looking for maybe now there, you know, there's a lot of positives that you've talked about. So maybe this next question is kind of obvious, but I wanted to ask, like, it seems like you've really dedicated your life to kind of learning about and sharing the merits of franchising. Kind of like what you were just saying. Why is this something that's so important to you personally?

Dr. Kathy Gosser (27:03):

You know, I'm really glad you asked me that question because it and I'm glad you sent it to me ahead of time so I could think about it a little bit because I have dedicated my life to this franchising model. And the reason now is I know what it did for me. I know the career I had, the opportunities I had, the people I met, the relationships I made, the success, et cetera. And I'd like to share that with others. And so being able to educate others about all the opportunities is really so fulfilling. As I mentioned, the undergraduate students, we just started up our franchise certificate and the fact that these classes of 40 are full with waiting lists, and we usually let, we just let five more into each of the classes this semester. It's really, really exciting. These students will tell me, I never even knew this was a possibility. And I think I can't wait in 10 years where I see some of these students as successful franchisees or having a career like mine. And that's what gets me going is how can I help? How can I give back? What is my purpose to be here? And it is to teach people about this vibrant model that makes all the difference in the world to so many of us.

Daniel Blaser (28:09):

Yeah. Well, that's great. I, I've, that's really inspirational. I think I did want to kind of connect the dots between what you're talking about, you know, as, as a, you know, franchisee growing your business, building that generational wealth, how does that rely upon effectively hiring and retaining employees to kind of connect the two threads?

Dr. Kathy Gosser (28:35):

Oh my gosh. It's everything. If you don't have the right employees, and you know, I'll just, I'll give you a little thing to think about. So what if you have, say that you have a couple that comes to your restaurant every month, all right, they come once a month, it's 12 times a year. Say they spend 20 bucks. Well, not even taking into account the, the present value of money, and I think I figured out 25 years that customer's worth $6,000 for 25 years. So if they're mistreated and they don't come back, can you afford to lose $6,000 a person? I don't think so. So that person on your front line is your business. You're putting your investment on them. So choosing the right person and making sure you train them to the standards that you expect from them. I mean, you owe them the training they deserve to be trained, right?

(29:22):

So that they have a chance to do the job, right. But think about that. You are passing by what could be $6,000 of revenue per person if you're not putting the right person on the line. So hiring the right person and making sure they're trained and oriented, engaged and wanna be there, that's what's gonna drive your business and it all there, because as a franchisee, you can't serve every customer. That's the whole idea is that you're changing this landscape, you're building this business, and it's in the hands of those frontline workers. So how they're treated makes a difference. And you know, at, at yum we had a CEO who said that customer experience will never exceed the team member experience. Think about that. How do you expect the customer experience to be better than the way you treat team members? So how you treat team members is going to transcend to that customer. So that's a really great paradigm shift to understand how important those frontline folks are in your hiring, and you are orienting them to your business as well as training makes all the difference in the world.

Daniel Blaser (30:25):

Yeah. Well that's a, I think that's a great way to think about it and maybe great words to end our conversation on. Kathy, it's been so nice talking to you. I wanted to give you the chance, you know, if someone's watching this, they're like, I wanna hear more what Kathy has to say. I think you mentioned a podcast. Where should people look to kind of see what else you've got going on?

Dr. Kathy Gosser (30:44):

So I started the podcast, it's called Franchise You, you Just, the Letter You right After franchise. And the reason was, we wanna provide education to anyone and everyone. Obviously we have the paid, the paid education, but I wanted to have something out there to help others. And so I drop one every other week and we've had wonderful people on it where you can just learn so much. You can find it on any of the podcast providers or the U of L website. But it's been a passion for me because I've learned more than anyone, and that was an unintended consequences, how much I learned, and I never dreamt that it would do that. So it's been really wonderful. So that's available. We have a website louisville.edu and you can look for franchising there. But I'm always happy to help to help anyone or talk to anyone because I think the more you know about the opportunities in franchising, if you even have an inkling, you'll probably wanna jump right off that diving board into the world of franchising.

Daniel Blaser (31:39):

Very cool. Well, I'll I'll include some links in the description so people can easily kind of browse through that stuff. But thanks again for, you know, taking this time and sharing your knowledge and your expertise. This has been great.

Dr. Kathy Gosser (31:51):

Thank you for allowing me. I appreciate it. Take care. <Silence>.