What Gen Z workers want with Cheryl Fields Tyler

Daniel Blaser (00:09):

Hello and welcome to On the Clock, presented by workstream. If you care about hiring, managing, and paying hourly workers, this is the podcast for you. I'm Daniel Blazer, and today we're clocking in with Cheryl Fields Tyler Award-winning researcher on the future of work and CEO of Blue. Beyond Consulting, our conversation builds on a popular topic, how to hire and retain Gen Z workers. Cheryl discusses what Gen Z workers are looking for in their jobs and the things you can do today to increase retention. Among this group, we also discuss how Gen Z has influenced what other age cohorts expect from their employers and more. Cheryl, thank you so much for being here. I'm really excited to chat with you today.

Cheryl Fields Tyler (00:52):

I'm happy to be here too, Daniel. Thank you.

Daniel Blaser (00:54):

If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to just start with a brief introduction and a little bit of background about yourself.

Cheryl Fields Tyler (01:00):

Sure. I'm Cheryl Fields Tyler, I'm the founder and owner and CEO of Blue. Beyond Consulting, we have been in business for just over 18 years, and before that I've really spent my whole career in research and consulting around the people side of business, so what makes organizations thrive for people and thrive through people.

Daniel Blaser (01:21):

One of the things, when I first heard about some of the work you've been doing, the thing that really stuck out to me is that it was all focused around Gen Z, and maybe you know this, maybe you don't, but that's actually been a topic that we've been exploring a lot on this podcast and elsewhere, it seems like everyone's kind of asking similar questions when it comes to embracing Gen Z in the workforce, what changes should be made, all of that good stuff. Anyway, so that's stood out to me and I'd love to hear about some of the research that you and your team recently completed on that topic.

Cheryl Fields Tyler (01:57):

Yes, yes. Thank you so much, Daniel. We've been doing a lot of research on really what makes organizations effective for people and through people, as I just said. And one of the things that we've delved deeply into is generations at work, including the specifics around Gen Z and really the other generations, how are they different? What's the same, that kind of thing. One of the things that's very interesting is that millennials are the dominant group in the workforce right now, but Gen Z has now overtaken the baby boomers in terms of just the numbers of actual human beings working full time in the workforce. And I would guess, I don't know for sure, Daniel, maybe you know this, but I'm guessing given the types of folks that are the audience for this podcast, that's definitely true in the hourly workforce and maybe even more true in the hourly workforce where folks often are working hourly wage jobs earlier in their careers.

(02:55):

So it's definitely a part of what we're managing as business leaders and business owners these days is how to really increase the context, the environment, where people can really be effective at work. And I think the two things that I would say that are really interesting out of our most recent research is one is around this theme of wellbeing and creating environments where people feel like their work is actually really a net positive in their lives. It's not just a paycheck, it's really contributing to their all wellbeing. We did this research three years ago and then we repeated it this year, three years ago. Those issues around wellbeing, mental health and wellness, that kind of thing, those issues were really, really important to Gen Z and millennials, but less important to Gen X and baby boomers. And one of the things that's very interesting, and I actually think helps us across all generations, but even with Gen Z, is actually what's happening in the intervening years, Daniel is our generations are now almost entirely alike in how much they care about issues around wellness and mental health and wellbeing.

(04:08):

And we've done a lot of key informant interviews around this to try to understand why. And interestingly, what we hear from boomers and from Gen X on this is that these are their children, their nieces and nephews, that people that they're seeing in their younger years in the workforce, and they're seeing that actually these mental health and wellbeing issues are not just affecting them, they're affecting all of us. And the aftermath of the pandemic, the issues around inflation, the issues around housing affordability, the issues around childcare, affordability, these are not generational issues alone. They do affect generations differently, but all it really matters to all of us, whether or not our work and our employment is actually contributing to our wellbeing overall. And I find that to be really compelling and also kind of really encouraging because it's saying that we're not pitted against each other, but really all in this together.

Daniel Blaser (05:11):

Yeah, that is really interesting. I don't want to put words in your mouth or anything like that, but is it fair to guess that maybe these other generations kind of saw that Gen Z workers were a little bit more comfortable voicing these concerns or making them a little bit more their bosses, managers, whatever, and increasing awareness around those and so it kind of opened the door for everyone else? Is that

Cheryl Fields Tyler (05:42):

I think that's true. I think that is true. I mean, that's probably more anecdotal than what I can see in the research per se, and I think we've got to give our millennial brothers and sisters, and in my case children, I don't know where you fall in the generations, but I think it was really millennials and Gen Z that were really putting their hands up and in some cases throwing their hands up through the pandemic saying, wait a minute, we have got to have workplaces that actually support our wellbeing. In fact, our work in 21, when we did this research in 2021, what we saw there is we use this phrase force for good people. Were looking for their workplaces, their employers business in general to be a force for good in the world. But it started at home. It starts with me, are you actually, do I have a living wage?

(06:35):

Do I have support for my life? And of course, that was right in the middle of the pandemic when things were really, really challenging. What we're seeing now is on every one of those force for good elements, Daniel, we actually feel even more strongly now on all of those elements that we want our business and our employers to be a force for good in our lives. We want our business and our employers to create a force for good in the way we work and how we work and in the world at large. And I would say that Gen Z is right at the sort of front end of that change in expectations of employers.

Daniel Blaser (07:14):

Yeah, that's really interesting. So one question that I have kind of as a follow-up to that, as we kind of mentioned earlier, a lot of the listeners to this podcast, they are in hospitality, quick service restaurants, a little bit of maybe some different industries than other white collar information sector work. And so my initial response to Force for Good and that kind of thing is like, yeah, that sounds really great. How does that apply to a quick service restaurant? Do you have a perspective on that? How some of these findings would apply specifically to hourly workers and industries that employ hourly workers? Well,

Cheryl Fields Tyler (08:03):

Some of the things are right at the top of the list, and I'm sure that your listeners hear this a lot is regular scheduling so that childcare can be scheduled routinely, a set number of hours so that I can actually know that I'm going to have a living wage. Of course, things like health insurance, dental insurance, vision insurance, and reasonable ways to achieve insurance for my family. These things are very important. I think those kind of essential human needs are incredibly important across the workforce, but even more important for folks that are in hourly workforces. I also think though that folks are looking for ways to learn career advancement. Learning and advancement came up much more strongly in this as a priority in our most recent survey than even in 21. And I think people are really looking for ways to partner with their employers to be able to advance their careers.

(09:09):

I think back in 21, the quiet quitting, there were so many jobs out there that people could move around. I think people, the labor force is settling down and the job market has settled down in the sense that we definitely see a little bit higher unemployment, that kind of thing. So I think people are not thinking that I want to change jobs to advance my career, but how can I advance my career through the opportunities in my current workplace? And I think hourly workers are looking for opportunities to learn to grow, to get additional skills and to advance their careers.

Daniel Blaser (09:45):

That makes a lot of sense, and that actually aligns pretty perfectly with some of the other conversations I've had with different restaurant owners. And then also I've had conversations with a director of HR or someone like that that started as a cashier and worked their way through the restaurant and now they're in the back office or something like that. I feel like there's a tendency for some people to see hourly jobs, especially hospitality is like, oh, well this is the job that you get when you're in college or whatever, and then you graduate from it and move on. But there actually are a lot of opportunities available to stay with a good company and work your way up and turn it into a career. I think it's somewhat on the employer's side to make sure that you're communicating those opportunities and making sure those are available. I think sometimes some employers see it as the same thing. They're like, oh, well yeah, get someone to fill in a position for 18 months and then they'll probably move on, but maybe they don't want to move on. Maybe they're open to something else if it's presented to them.

Cheryl Fields Tyler (11:00):

Absolutely. Absolutely. And it's interesting, we've done a number of, one of the things my company does is help organizations identify their employee value proposition. And a lot of times when we're working with organizations like the kind that you're talking about, one of the things that we do, a lot of focus groups, surveys is that kind of thing to understand what employee sentiments are. And a lot of times management is really surprised at how interested the frontline organization really would be to actually advancing their career, moving up in management, getting different skills, moving into other kinds of roles. And I think there's that old adage, there's the best way to grow your organization is through a customer you already have. I think that's also true on the talent side, Daniel, the best way to grow organizations from a talent point of view is with the people we already have. So look at those folks that are currently in your workforce, even as part-time workers, as essentially the opportunity to grow your talent from within and really find those folks that would be interested in that journey, committed to that journey and invest there. It's probably the cheapest way and most effective way long-term to build the talent foundation for your organization for the future.

Daniel Blaser (12:16):

Yeah, absolutely. One follow-up question I had about the topic of skill development and training, which you mentioned is so important. Do you have any sort of idea of a breakdown between hard skills and soft skills, and how do we define that? Gen Z's looking for skill development, they're looking for training. Is it kind of across the board? Are they looking for more soft skill training or do you have any idea?

Cheryl Fields Tyler (12:47):

Daniel? I would say say it's going to be so dependent on the context of the workplace,

(12:54):

Number one, because employers obviously have to meet the needs of their work and their organization and their business objectives. I think in the world that we're in right now, as we're moving to and AI supported work environment almost across every single aspect of what we're doing, all the research I'm reading as well as in our own research, what we're seeing is that business leaders are feeling like AI and all of the associated technologies are going to increase the needs for soft skills and not decrease them. And secondarily, not second in priority, but kind of a separate or related piece is really around growth mindset and learning. In some ways, the best thing we can help our people learn is how to learn effectively and efficiently in the context that we're all in. And it's interesting because one of the things that we saw in our data, an interesting little sidebar here, is that the most that actually Gen Z is actually quite, is a little bit more skeptical about AI I than the millennials and the Gen Xers are.

(14:07):

And part of this is that I think our Gen Z colleagues have grown up in a digital native environment where they're seeing every day some of the cool things about technology, but also a lot of the downside of technology. And so I don't think that we can assume that the folks that are in our youngest cohort in the workplace these days are, even though they're digital natives, that they're totally ready to adopt every one of these new technologies. And I think that really, one eliciting their wisdom around that is going to be very important I think as we navigate the next generation of technologies in the workplace, but also really helping them help us learn effectively about technologies. They're very effective at learning new technologies, but layering on that capacity for growth mindset, for really applying those, that knowledge and skills in the context of work and then those soft skills being built in alongside of that. That's really, I think, the best combination that we could possibly put together right now in terms of where to focus our skill development for that particular generation.

Daniel Blaser (15:21):

Did your research kind of provide any insight in the way that technology reflects back on an employer or a company? So for example, like you said, gen Z is very comfortable with technology. They probably have higher standards or expectations when it comes to being asked to fill out a really clunky job application that only works on a desktop computer, except we've all had those experiences.

Cheryl Fields Tyler (15:53):

Yes.

Daniel Blaser (15:53):

Yeah, I'd love to hear more about that.

Cheryl Fields Tyler (15:56):

Well, our research explicitly didn't address that, Daniel, but I can tell you that even in my own company, as we've recruited, people of the younger generations really expect every experience to be, they expect to be able to access it on their phones. They expect it to be a user experience like the rest of their user experiences in the world. We know this is not our research, but I've seen other research. We know that Gen Z really enjoys learning via technology. If it's done well, if it's not done well, they lose interest immediately because they're so used to digital experiences that really are, we call it human compelling visual communication and learning experiences that they want experiences and create experiences, create content for one another that's human compelling and visual. And so if we're going to compete for the emotional and mental bandwidth with those generations, we really have to do our best there and honestly elicit again, their talent and their creativity and their ingenuity to help us get there.

Daniel Blaser (17:11):

One question that I guess is kind of related to this whole technology topic. So we were talking about providing a positive experience as far as wellbeing, mental health, all of that good stuff. I do feel like a part of that comes from good communication with a manager, with a fellow employee. How do you connect the dots between that and the fact that Gen Z probably would prefer doing more communication via text message and kind those communication methods? How do we make sure that there's still a sense of connection even if there's fewer phone calls or face-to-face interactions? Does that make sense?

Cheryl Fields Tyler (18:01):

Yeah. I'm going to go back to an adage, I never know quite who to attribute it to. I've seen it attributed to Maya, Angelo and others, but people will always forget what you said, but they'll never forget how you make them feel. And I think that the reason why I bring that up in this context is what I have heard, and again, we didn't ask questions specifically about this in our research, but what I've heard in lots of focus groups with Gen Z and younger millennial employees in workplaces like manufacturing or hospitality with lots of hourly workforce where they may not have a lot of interaction day-to-day with senior leaders or middle managers, they might have a daily interaction with their direct supervisor, but is that the lore, creating moments where they interact with leaders and have positive experiences have a halo effect for a very long time.

(18:59):

And guess what the other experience does too, where someone from central offices on the manufacturing floor and walks by and points out a little something that's wrong but does not appreciate or make eye contact or anything like that with the folks that are there. The point that I'm making here, Daniel, is that good communication hygiene is good communication hygiene period. And if we only have a few moments of face-to-face interaction and a lot of it is being going through, we've got to make sure that those moments really count, that they really make a difference in terms of enabling people to feel seen, heard, appreciated, coached, getting feedback where necessary, all of that good stuff. And we need to actually, it makes those moments that matter interpersonally just that much more important if they're not happening that often.

Daniel Blaser (19:54):

One of the things that I've heard from other conversations on this topic is that Gen Z really wants to have a purpose in their jobs. And you mentioned that a little bit earlier, right? The force for good, once again, this is something that I feel like sometimes can seem a little bit more challenging when it comes to hourly roles. So let's say you're listening to this and you employ a handful of Gen Z workers at your restaurant and you're like, okay, I want these workers to feel a little bit more purpose in their role, and they have what they're doing matters, but they're serving food. It's a little bit harder maybe. What recommendations would you have for that?

Cheryl Fields Tyler (20:42):

Well, again, it's going to be so dependent on the context, of course, Daniel, but if you have in a food service environment, for instance, if you are doing things that really are environmentally conscious, making sure that those messages reach your frontline people really matters because the vast majority of young people are very aware of climate change, very worried have anxiety about climate change and how it's going to shape their life and really would prefer to work for employers that are doing their part along those lines. Another thing, if you are an organization that hires and employees, young workers just know that most young workers, gen Z workers care a lot about diversity, equity, inclusion in the workplace. They want to see modeling of inclusion. They want to see fairness in pay. They want to see this is not lip service or some kind of broader agenda.

(21:40):

It's really about how does it work, how does it feel here to be in a workplace with diverse people and feel that sense of inclusion and belonging? And if I'm a diverse person, if I'm an L-G-B-T-Q person or if I'm a person from a different or a mixed race, do I feel a sense of belonging here? Those things really matter, and they really, that purpose of being a place where people can really belong even and especially if they're an hourly worker, really makes a difference. And then I think the last thing I would just point to from a purpose point of view is feeling like I'm working for an organization that has ethics and integrity in how they run their business, and we sometimes underestimate that folks really see bad or ineffective behavior and then just gloss over it. Make sure that you're actually working with your senior leaders branch manager, that manager in that restaurant or at that hotel, and make sure that they're actually exhibiting good workplace behaviors. If there's something that's not working, it's going to get talked about, it's going get shared. And that actually can go against any other kind of purpose washing that you might be doing in terms of other good citizenship that you're doing is if that walking the talk thing isn't happening at that location or in those relationships with managers or leaders, it's going to come back to haunt you.

Daniel Blaser (23:12):

One question that I had, you were saying, you were talking about how so much of what we've discussed today that obviously matters to millennials, gen x, boomers, like everyone, but there are still some differences between Gen Z and some of the older workers. How should employers think about kind of bridging the gap where they're meeting Gen Z, where they need to be met, but they're also addressing maybe some of the communication preferences or some of the other things unique to older workers?

Cheryl Fields Tyler (23:45):

Yeah, it's interesting, Daniel. I really think what's good for Gen Z is probably good for all of us, right? I, and I don't mean that because they're unusual, but because a lot of what I have seen Gen Z putting on the table is important, is actually important to all of us is you pointed out earlier, it may be that Gen Z has just been a little bit more vocal about some of these needs and more open to letting us know what they're thinking. So I think that's the first thing I would say is yes, adapt to the generations, but really look for those things that we really have in common and really bring a lot of what folks are looking for are just good practices in managing human beings and creating the environment for humans to do their best work together, communicate effectively, all of those kinds of things.

(24:38):

That's the first thing. The second thing is, what we've already touched on honestly, is I feel like thinking about Gen Z is in the workplace now and is ready to move into leadership, ready to learn, ready to grow. Don't discount our Gen Z colleagues just because they're younger, maybe they have a little more ink on their arms, they have that extra piercing in their ear. There's a lot of incredible talent that is already latent in your organization. Make sure that you're tapping that talent for your future. It really is. Again, the best way to grow your organization is through talent and a lot of that talent may already be in your team. Just make sure you know those folks and know how to develop them.

Daniel Blaser (25:26):

What other projects are you working on? Is there more research coming down the pike?

Cheryl Fields Tyler (25:31):

Yes. We're about to release our full report overview in the next few weeks, and then we're going to be doing individual reports on this research over the next several months, including generations at work agenda, a blueprint for leadership, that kind of thing. So yeah, we're happy to have people our website, blue beyond consulting.com. It'll be obvious where you can download those materials and get on our mail list if you want to get the individual topic reports as we release them.

Daniel Blaser (26:00):

Thanks so much, Cheryl. This has been really informative for me and I just think this is awesome.

Cheryl Fields Tyler (26:06):

Thank you so much, Daniel, and thank you to all your listeners. Really appreciate your engagement and if there's anything that you want to provide feedback on, I'm looking forward to that feedback. Thanks, Daniel.

Daniel Blaser (26:27):

Thank you for listening to On the Clock. For more info, visit workstream us slash podcast. I've included a link in the show notes to learn more about Cheryl's work. Until next time, we're clocking out.