Terese Fogleman shares 3 secrets to hiring and retention

Daniel Blaser (00:00:00):

Welcome to everyone and we really appreciate you choosing to be here. You've got a lot of other things going on and if you're in the restaurant business, you're probably very busy, so we're excited to share some things that are hopefully going to be very valuable and worth your time. As was in the intro, I work at Workstream, do a few different things, including our podcast. And the only reason I mentioned that is because as I kind of weigh in on different things today, a lot of what I'm going to my perspective comes from the podcast interviews that I've done over the last couple of years. So I kind of try to aggregate the information that I get from a bunch of amazing work stream customers and hopefully kind of pass some of that on. And Terese is obviously our special guest today. It's really great to have her back. We did a webinar a little bit ago and it was one of the best webinars we've ever done. So Terese is in high demand. And I wanted to kick things off Terese by asking you to share a little bit about your background with Chick-fil-A because I remember that it goes far back and I think that that's a little bit more about that.

Terese Fogleman (00:01:13):

Okay. Thank you so much Daniel and the work stream team for inviting me back. I really enjoyed the hour that we spent together last summer, I believe. I think it was almost a year ago, so it does go way back. My history with Chick-fil-A goes back to when I was a teenager, so I attended a small private school in North Georgia called Berry College, and at the end of my freshman year, I heard about an opportunity to become a camp counselor at a brand new girls camp camp win shape for girls. So I applied and I became the tennis pro since I was the only one on staff who really knew how to play tennis. And then I also became a swim instructor because I had just completed a life saving course. But during those weeks, and I did that over two summers, I met a very special couple special Truett and Jeanette, Kathy and I didn't know who they were in the business world, but I did know that they were really wonderful people and they spent a lot of time at the camp with the camp counselors and the children.

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And I came to learn over time that they were the owners of a company called Chick-fil-A. I grew up in the country in north Florida. There was no Chick-fil-A there. I had seen one in a mall in Gainesville. So I just really kind of fell in love with those folks and their commitment to philanthropy and then learned more about the restaurant business as I left college and moved to Atlanta and started working off and on while I was raising my children in in restaurants in Atlanta, helping with a few grand openings. I became a restaurant marketing director, did that for several years and then just grew up through the business and eventually became a franchise owner in my forties. So it's a wonderful company, the people who own it, very genuine giving people.

Daniel Blaser (00:03:21):

Yeah, thanks for sharing that. I think it's really cool. When you first told me that it just kind of comes full circle and also you mentioning what drew you initially to Chick-fil-A and the values and stuff. I feel like that's what we're going to talk a lot about today are going to be kind of some of those same values and how they directly impact some of your hiring and your retention efforts. I feel like it is a good kind of introduction. So one thing that I think is pretty interesting, and maybe you already know this from experience, but I found this stat that Chick-fil-A, I think this is as of 2023, it was the last time this data was updated. Chick-fil-A has the most busy drive-throughs out of any QSR in the country on average. So I feel like, and that definitely bears out for me whenever I go there with my kids, they want the chicken nuggets and we're in line and it's busy, but I also feel like it's usually pretty quick, which is good.

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So anyway, that is to say that's a huge task for how do you hire to obviously staff some of the busiest drive-throughs in the country. But one other thing that I think, and I'd love to hear your take on this is I feel like a lot of Chick-fil-A locations, even though they're so busy and even though a lot of Chick-fil-A's employee, more employees than other QSRs, it doesn't seem like there's quite the retention challenges for Chick-fil-A as a whole than maybe some other QSR brands. Is that fair to say? Or is? Yeah, I'd love to get your take on that.

Terese Fogleman (00:05:06):

Well, I can only speak for myself and as far as my location, and I do know that we have the busiest drive-throughs in the nation. I of course read industry magazines, so they do that type of reporting restaurant, restaurant news does all of the different surveys and reports and things. And I do have, of course a lot of associates who are Chick-fil-A operators. So yes, we do have very busy, that is fair to say. And I think that we just in general, I can speak to the fact that we have a different model for staffing. We are given the freedom as operators, not being employees of Chick-fil-A, but partners with Chick-fil-A. Were not held to a rigid labor productivity number. And so many corporations really, they hurt themselves by saying, okay, you only allowed this amount for labor. That's it. And it doesn't matter if you're busier or if things have occurred where you need more labor, you don't get it.

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And so many QSRs managers and even owners are held to labor productivity rates or labor percentages that are impossible to meet. We are in a great business model where there's parameters set for, okay, we'd like for your labor percentage to fall between this and this, but we trust you as an owner or an operator that your highest goal is good service. Your highest goal is to take care of your guest. So it's built into the foundation of the agreement as an operator that you're not held to an immovable line. And again, so many QSRs they are. And it's unfortunate because with that, they're not allowed to have the same service levels that they could if there was flexibility to that number. I know that was very technical, but I hope that was helpful.

Daniel Blaser (00:07:33):

No, that's definitely really interesting. I know that I think some of the latest numbers that I've read for QSR in general is there's something like 150% turnover rate annually or something. I think that's maybe a familiar number is you're basically hiring 15 people just to maybe have 10 hanging around by the end of the year, and then you're losing all of those. And anyway, to set that up against this backdrop of really high turnover, can you talk a little bit about the success you've had with retention at your location?

Terese Fogleman (00:08:17):

Yes, certainly. So last fall I received this box in the mail from the support center, that's what we call our corporate headquarters in Atlanta and opened it and it was full of candy and there was this great laminated sheet in there. It said, congratulations for being top 10% in the chain for retention for the year 2023. And it was signed by a friend of mine who's a financial consultant with Chick-fil-A. And I emailed her and I said, I didn't even know that anybody was paying attention to that or that there was an award. And she's like, oh yes. So that just made me feel really good because I spend so much time on staffing and making sure that we have enough staff and that they're the right folks, that they're the right fit for our business model and our hospitality model. So that was great.

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That was kind of an at a girl that I wasn't expecting. And of course the whole box full of candy went really well for the staff. They loved that. But part of that retention rate is a focus. I am very intentional about talent and very intentional about that whole entire part of the business. It never leaves my mind, and it's not like a burden. It's a good thing. It takes a lot of thinking and planning. One of the tools that I use is workstream, and workstream has really helped us in that department. It's simplified things and we are starting to use more and more of your features. I love that you now have the I nine reminders. That's something where we can just everybody, we don't have to physically do that anymore, remind people that they need to update their information. So it's a focus and it's a priority, and that makes all the difference in my world.

Daniel Blaser (00:10:26):

Yeah, that's great. Do you know, just curious, a percentage ish of what sort of retention you experienced last year. You mentioned top 10 of Chick-fil-A, which I imagine is probably a pretty high bar anyway, but do you have any just estimate, just curious. If not, that's fine.

Terese Fogleman (00:10:47):

The last time I looked, the way the numbers are reported, it's a little confusing. So it's more a focus on the turnover rate. And my turnover rate had gone back down to pre covid numbers. It was below 60%, which in our industry is very good. As you mentioned, 150% turnover rate is painful because essentially every year you were hiring and losing one and a half times your staff. So a turnover rate at a 50 to 60% rate is excellent. That means you're keeping 50% of your staff each year. And in our industry, that's big. That's a good number.

Daniel Blaser (00:11:44):

Yeah, I'm sure those watching this, that know what they're facing as far as some of the retention challenges, I'm sure that's a pretty impressive number because as I've spoken with different people for the podcast, that seems like one of the better turnover numbers that I've heard, and

Terese Fogleman (00:12:03):

I know that's a crazy number for just a regular business. If you think about it, an accounting firm or a lawyer's office or a bank, you would never have those type of turnover rates. But in our industry, yes, people come and go like this all the time.

Daniel Blaser (00:12:24):

Yeah. Okay. So when it comes to some of the reasons that you have been able to have such good retention, you mentioned making it a big priority, always keeping on top of mind. You also mentioned using some tools like workstream and others to make sure that you're automating some of that stuff. I think when we chatted before, there were a couple of other specific things that you mentioned, and we kind of highlighted them on this slide here. And so I kind of wanted to overview these and then we're going to jump into specifically what some of these mean and how you impact them. So number one, you mentioned embracing and supporting Gen Z. Number two, you said something about three pillars of retention or three specific kind of tenets of things that you focus on. And then the third is to give workers what they want. And obviously every worker wants money. And so it's like beyond that. Yeah, it's

Terese Fogleman (00:13:27):

Beyond the money. Yes,

Daniel Blaser (00:13:28):

Yes,

Terese Fogleman (00:13:28):

Exactly. Because there's only so much money.

Daniel Blaser (00:13:31):

Yes. There's only so much of that. This still aligns with what you think you've, how you've been able to have the success with retention. Is this a fair representation to distill it down? Cool.

Terese Fogleman (00:13:47):

Yes.

Daniel Blaser (00:13:48):

Cool. Well then in that case, let's jump in and start to kind of dissect some of these a little bit. First off is Gen Z and embracing Gen Z. Before we jump into how you do this, why is this important? Why does this matter to you?

Terese Fogleman (00:14:10):

Well, let's talk about how old they are. So with Gen Z, it's kids who were born 2001 and forward. So we're talking about people who are 23 years old and younger. And then the hospitality industry, I would say the bulk of people who work in it fit in that age group. I would say between 16 and 23 years old. Of course, there are plenty of people in their upper twenties who are working in the hospitality industries. But in our industry, in Chick-fil-A in particular, we have a younger crowd because it is a brand that parents feel very comfortable having their young teenagers work there as their first job. They feel like it's safe, their kids will be safe. The customers are probably not going to be as rowdy as if their kid worked at a place that sells alcohol. So we are uniquely situated to have people as young as 14 come and work for us 14 and 15 years old. So it's important as an employer to know who wants to work for you, who are you employing? And Gen Z is, I would say they're probably 80% of my employees.

Daniel Blaser (00:15:42):

I was reading a thing that this year, and maybe it's already happened, but the projections were sometime in 2024, the number of Gen Z workers in the US workforce will eclipse the number of baby boomer workers. Obviously as more Gen Z enters the workforce and then baby boomers leave the workforce. That kind of hits that point. So maybe we're already there, but like you said, within QSR, within maybe Chick-fil-A specifically, that number is going to be way higher even than maybe some other industries. So that makes sense.

Terese Fogleman (00:16:20):

Right, right.

Daniel Blaser (00:16:24):

Alright, so let's talk about a few of the specific things that you've done to help Gen Z feel welcome and maybe embrace some of the uniqueness of Gen Z. So these were based on some of the things that we talked about before that you've identified is everyone wants these things laid out on the screen, a sense of belonging, some accommodations if necessary, and then respect, right? Those are kind of universal. But I'd love to hear from you, why do you think that some of these things are maybe a little bit more important to Gen Z? Or what have you seen as far as these things mattering just a little bit more?

Terese Fogleman (00:17:09):

Alright. Well, I think that Gen Z, they're savvier and more educated about the world than any of us ever were entering into the workforce. I know that when I was a teenager, how I was taught to think about a job is you need one and you're lucky if you can get a good one. And you certainly would never disrespect an adult in your job and you really didn't want your boss to know your name. You just wanted to go to work and get your work done and get your paycheck. But this is a very different generation in that they have been taught from an early age through school, through media, through their parents that they matter. And I think in many ways that's great. I think that's a positive in this world, that people are going into the workforce saying, okay, I matter. I do have some rights.

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I don't need to handle abuse or strange situations or inappropriate situations. So I think that they just know themselves better and know their rights better. And I think that that is a very positive thing. People really like to lean into the whole thing about entitlement and just say, this is a terrible generation. That's not true, but it is. Some people can be terrible and entitled, but it's just a different generation. And I think it behooves employers to understand who they're working with and to understand their motivation. And so a sense of belonging of that. Their boss does know their name, that I know who they are. I know they're in high school, I know they're in college. I know something about them and that my senior leaders the same thing. That they know the people who work there and that we're there for them. If they're going through a crisis, Hey, you can talk to us, it's fine.

(00:19:27):

So a sense of belonging of you're a part of our team, we know you and we care about you. I think that's really important as far as accommodations, I put that in there because the other thing about Gen Z is they know their diagnosis. That is not something that probably even your generation would've known. You didn't go to college and write down and let your professor know, I have a DHD or I'm dyslexic, or I am this type of learner and I flunk test. If they're written tests, could you accommodate and give oral test? So most of the kids who have any sort of divergent disabilities or learning disabilities, they know them and they will talk about them. It's great that there's not shame about those things anymore. I have a son who has a DHD and I have another son who struggled with physical disabilities his whole life.

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He was born with some physical disabilities and it was challenging at times to raise them and to help them to be confident and to know how to ask somebody for help, particularly the one with physical disabilities. He had to ask sometimes for help at school. So I'm willing to live in that space with my team. I have people on my team, several who have a DHD, cerebral palsy, heart problems, learning disabilities, and I'm like, you know what? You belong here with us. We'll help you work it out. And can everybody do every job in the store? No, they can't. But there are ways that we will work around those things so that they can have a part-time job in high school or college and we're going to work with them. And then I think that that leads perfectly into respect. Just it's important to respect younger people and not have the attitude of, well, when I was your age, we would've never done this or done that. But it's also important to expect that respect from them to have a reciprocal relationship of respect.

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But it starts with me as the employer. I don't make fun of the music they listen to. I'm not going to say something rude to them about something that they wear or they have different slang than we did. So it's about acceptance and respect and helping them to know that you care about them, but they're there to do a job. So I hope that the employers out there who are listening can hear me say, I'm not pampering my staff or saying, I'm your mom. I'm saying, you're welcome here. We'll work with you. We respect you, but you're here to learn to work and to do a job well. And if they can't, then they're not a fit for our business model.

Daniel Blaser (00:22:53):

Yeah. One thing that's really impressive to me about as you lay out some of this is when it comes to a sense of belonging, having a Gen Z feel like maybe they need something that gives them a little more purpose, and I feel like maybe there's a tendency to be like, well, it's a job. Just suck it up and go do your job. To be dismissive of that. Even same thing with some of the accommodation stuff, depending on what it is, I've heard different attitudes around, well, once again, you're here to do a job. I am not here to accommodate every little thing, just go do the work or whatever. Just a little bit of dismissiveness. Anyway, so I love that you kind of highlight the importance of offering that respect and being not just dismissing it, I guess is where I'm going. Just having enough of an open mind to kind of meet them where they are. I would love to hear if you can think of an example or just a little bit more to add on as you have offered this sense of belonging, kind of maybe gone a little bit out of your way to do so, offer the accommodations, et cetera. What sort of response have you generally seen from most of your employees?

Terese Fogleman (00:24:13):

Very positive, very positive response. I'll share an example with you. There was a young man who we hired and he had a very slow speech pattern and it became an issue. The customers were getting frustrated with him on the front counter and in our drive-through play, and he was a bright young man, but it turned out that this speech impediment was really tripping him up. And someone suggested, oh, we just can't. He's not going to make the cut. He's a nice guy, but he just can't do it. And I said to one, I said to several of my leaders, Hey, let's just think about this. Let me go home and think about it and I'll have an answer tomorrow. So we had some tasks that needed to be done around the store on a daily basis, some things outside, some things inside, but almost like a janitorial role, but not quite.

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And I thought this young man would be great for that because he was as reliable as the son. He was always on time, always ready to work, very polite, and I thought, we need to find a place for him here. So I went to him though and asked him, I said, would you want to do these physical tasks? Is this something that interests you? And he's like, absolutely. He said, I would love to do that. He's like, it's torture to try to talk to customers and talk quickly. And he said, but I want to stay here because I really like working here. He accepted the job. He stayed with me for another year. But one of the young leaders came to me after that and said, I just am so impressed that we found a place for him here, because in most places they would've been like, you're out the door, dude, you can't make the cut around here. And he said, I'm so happy. He said, I learned something from you that you can help people belong and you can accommodate in a business without sacrificing the work. And he said, that will always stick with me. And I thought, okay, great.

Daniel Blaser (00:26:41):

I love that story. Obviously it's kind of a feel good story because you gave somebody an opportunity that maybe someone else wouldn't have given or would've given up on them, but I love it. Also, you mentioned that that employee stuck around for another year and they did. You could rely on them. So it was something that you went a little bit out of your way for and kind of tried to find a place, but then you were, not to say you were rewarded, maybe that's not the right word, but there was an upside for you in doing that little bit of extra work and trying to find a place. So I really love that story.

Terese Fogleman (00:27:17):

It was a win-win, and that's what I would love for employers to understand that if we take that little bit of extra effort and help our employees, we are rewarded. I mean, that young man, everybody came to love him. He was one of our most popular employees once he was in the right place and wasn't stressed every day by dealing with strangers. And I mean, what a reward for us. And it was a win-win situation for him and I.

Daniel Blaser (00:27:51):

Yeah, that's great. Okay, so we've been talking about Gen Z specifically. Now I think it's time to zoom out a little bit, and I wanted to touch on the three pillars of retention, I think what you called 'em. So those three pillars are organization, fast training and then fostering and quickly, obviously I feel like that third one is like there's a little bit of overlap with some of the stuff we've already talked about, but I'd love to kind of go into each of these. And let's start with organization, which this might be the wrong slide here, but yeah, let's just talk about organization while we're looking at this slide right here.

Terese Fogleman (00:28:43):

Alright, so when I say organization, what I mean is a business that's well run, people are looking for a place of employment that's not chaotic, that they come in, they know where they're going to be, what they're going to be doing for the day. They know that there's leadership there. If things go sideways, they're not there by themselves, that there's someone that they can go to who's knowledgeable and trained and professional. Having an organized business provides a sense of stability for your employees. And in my organization, I've divided it up into departments and there are well-trained leaders at the head of each department, so people know who to go to. And just as a little example, we have an operations department, a facilities department, a human resources department, catering, and also marketing and training. So each of those departments is headed by a professional. Those professionals are not Gen Z, they're older people with education in that area or business experience and life experience. Because one of my hard learnings over the years was that people who are heading entire departments in your business, they need to have maturity.

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And so the business is structured, it's stable, and people come into that and they find their place within it and they feel peaceful. I hear that often where people will say, wow, this is so peaceful here. You know what you're doing. I feel good here. Because we all get nervous when we go into a business that's just chaotic. Even as a guest, if you go into a business and you can tell they don't know what they're doing and no one can answer your questions or they don't have the right resources, you start feeling that anxiety rising in you. And it's much more so when people work in an environment where they have no idea what's going to happen day to day. So in my business, for the last 12 years since I stepped into the ownership of that business, that has always been a goal.

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And it's kind of funny because my kids would tell you that that's the way I ran our home, but it worked particularly, I had done a lot of research on A DHD when my son was in kindergarten, and they said that one of the most important things for someone who has a DHD is to be in an organized environment. So we see that at work too. For a lot of teenagers. Life can be very chaotic, and then they come to work, and for many of them, they tell us that work is their happy place, work is their safe place. And then with fast training, that is a huge priority. Everybody is trained. So as soon as you are hired, you move over into an orientation. So everybody gets the same information about the business, the history of the business, about the operator, about all of the leadership.

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They see who all the leaders are and they know who they report to. And then we assign them training videos, which are internal training videos about various things like how to make a sandwich or how to use the register. But in addition to that, every single person who comes onto our staff has three shifts where they are assigned to a trainer and the trainer works with them, specifically shows them where everything is in the store, introduces them to other staff members, answers any of their questions, and then also shows them how to do their actual job.

Daniel Blaser (00:33:19):

Yeah, I can kind of hear in what you're talking about for the training side, how the organization part also plays a role because what you're saying, it sounds very organized and very consistent, which is great. You don't want to start a new job and be looking around and like, okay, well now what do I do? Or what's expected of me? I did want to ask you specifically use the word fast when you're talking about training and why, why is that speed so important? And then also connected to that question is how do you balance speed with providing a quality training experience?

Terese Fogleman (00:34:01):

Well, I may have misspoke when I used fast or used it in a different context because it's not as if they're going through the training at a higher speed. Maybe when we talked, what I was referring to is that immediate training. There's no

Daniel Blaser (00:34:18):

Gap.

Terese Fogleman (00:34:20):

You come in, you're hired and you'll be trained. And there's not a gap. We don't lose you between the cracks. We don't come back to you like a week later and say, oh, did you get any training? No, once you're hired and do orientation, you're assigned. So I think that may have been what I was

Daniel Blaser (00:34:45):

Referring

Terese Fogleman (00:34:45):

To.

Daniel Blaser (00:34:46):

That definitely makes sense. Alright, so your last pillar is fostering belonging. And like I said, that kind of I feel touches on some of the stuff we've already mentioned, but I'd love to hear when you say that, what does that mean to you?

Terese Fogleman (00:35:05):

Well, it means to me that everybody who is hired is welcome in our environment. And the only reason they would lose that is if they didn't care, they didn't do their job well, or they just did something terrible like stole money out of a cash register drawer or bullied one of their coworkers. But barring those sorts of things, people are welcome there. And one of the things that I always prioritize is every new employee, if I haven't met them yet, because I do have a hiring manager, when I see them, I walk up to them, look them in the eye, shake their hand and say, welcome to our team. I'm so glad you're here.

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And that's just very powerful because I don't know how many times in my life, certainly as a teenager where you felt awkward and unwelcome and walking into a new youth group or walking into a new classroom or a new school or trying out for something. That type of anxiety is natural. And I'm not trying to dispel all anxiety from every kid who works for me. That's a little out there, but I just want them to know they're welcome. And I've taught my trainers that they are the first point of contact with new team members. So not only is it their goal to help teach them practical knowledge, but to get to know them and to let that new team member know, we're glad you're here. You're a part of our team now. And our team is, I would say we're like a work family. I hesitate to use the word family.

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You do have to have boundaries in a professional setting, but there's a strong sense of care amongst our team members and people are looking for that. I mean, simply put, we don't live in a very nice world and people are looking for somewhere where other people care about them. And I'll give you an example. One of our kitchen managers, wonderful lady who's worked for me for 12 years, all 12 years, and she had a tragedy happen a year ago. She was out with her husband and they're home caught on fire, and her 15-year-old son was cognizant enough to get the 8-year-old sister out. And so they were safe, but immediately our team pulled together and we helped them find a place to stay. We provided blankets, we fed them, and we took care of their family. And it was very organic. It wasn't me saying, we need to go help her.

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It was on our work GroupMe. Everybody was like, how can we help you? And so we helped their family for about a month until they could get into housing again. But that sense of care of just knowing you're not alone in the world. I mean employers, we can have that and we have more freedom to do that than even schools do. We don't have all the rules on us, all the bureaucracy on us, all the red tape that so many institutions do. So I think it's a great way for us to care for the people around us. And so that's powerful. I mean, I love it. I love it.

Daniel Blaser (00:39:11):

Yeah. What a great story and a great way to emphasize the importance of the fostering belonging want. I'm looking at the clock. I want to make sure we have time to get to our last point, which is you talked about the importance of going beyond the dollars and identifying what it is that your workers are looking for in a role beyond just give me cash. But

(00:39:44):

A couple of these things that I think we talked about, and I summarized 'em on this slide here, being flexible, but also that doesn't necessarily mean being inconsistent. There's an important differentiator there, investing in shift scheduling tools and making a good process there maybe goes back to some of the organization we talked about a second ago. And then lastly, being fair and transparent with scheduling requests and whatnot. Those are just a couple things that I remember came up in the conversation as we were talking about this. I'd love to just, you can just maybe talk about some of these and provide a little bit more context around this.

Terese Fogleman (00:40:28):

So I'm in a university town and the majority of my employees are college students, either at the junior college level or at the university level. And I realized a long time ago that I could position myself as a desirable employer if I would work with people's schedules. So I work with the college calendar and I work with their schedules. And I've developed a system of doing that where each semester they give me their new class schedule. Now the person who does this now is my general manager. She's now in charge of this responsibility. But we work with study abroad. We will work with someone who is a great and reliable employee all throughout their college career. And we will flex with them if they're doing a study abroad for a month or they're doing an internship for a month, or their semester has changed and their classes have changed and their availability has changed, we will go that extra mile to keep a great employee by working with them on those things.

(00:41:46):

Now again, they have to be responsible. There is no, well, my class has changed. This is what I do now. No, it's proactive. College students sign up for their classes months ahead of time, so they get their schedule and we're like, we need your spring schedule when it's December. And we know that they have it. So if they want preferential scheduling and scheduling that works with their school schedule, they're going to need to produce that class schedule. So it's a situation where they have to be transparent and tell us the truth, and we work with them on those things. So that's worked very well. And the other thing about inconsistency is I found that in a college town, so many employers don't give their students consistent hours. A common complaint that we hear is someone will say, my friends told me that if I come over here and work and you commit to giving me 20 hours per week, you'll actually give them to me.

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I've had to leave this other job because they told me they would do that. And some weeks I'm scheduled five hours, some weeks I'm scheduled 30, I can't pay my bills with that inconsistency. So we all have bills to pay, and it's important to respect that for people. And if you commit to a certain amount of hours, you give them those hours. And of course your business has to have consistent sales to do that. There are special circumstances where sometimes you can't give somebody what they want, but I think that those are really the exception rather than the rule.

Daniel Blaser (00:43:40):

Yeah, that definitely makes sense. The other two that we can touch on in one lump sum, I remember you talking a little bit about the importance of just creating a good process with shift scheduling, that there can be sometimes some weird power dynamics at play. What have you done to make sure that your shift scheduling is fair, transparent, and everyone feels like they're being treated equally there?

Terese Fogleman (00:44:09):

I learned that the most mature leader in the store does the schedule and that leader, before they're given the schedule to do, they have to prove that they're not petty and that they're objective, unbiased, fair. So the most mature leaders are the only ones who do the schedule. In my business, I have four people who rotate doing the schedule, and honestly, I keep an eye on it because early on in my career, I got quite burned by the power dynamics of a certain leader who scheduled her friends the best schedules and then gave people she didn't like the worst schedule or didn't give them hours. So when I discovered that was happening, because people came to me and talked to me about it, I thought, wow, never again, the schedule has to be done by not just anyone. It has to be done by someone mature.

Daniel Blaser (00:45:15):

Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, so this overall bucket of reliable scheduling, that was one thing that you identified is being really important for workers that is kind of additional beyond just the paycheck. And then there's one more thing that I want to touch on. And then after that we have a little competition and we're going to do q and a. So just to preview coming attractions. But before we get to that, I'd love to just hear you talk a little bit about the importance of opportunities for growth. And there's a stat here that among those dustless workers, hourly workers that said they're considering leaving their jobs, 51% cited their employer's lack of career advancement or growth as the number one reason, which is more than actually people saying just pay. So that might be one for a lot of workers, that's the number one reason they're considering looking for another place to go. So yeah, I'd love to hear your take on this. And what are some of the things that you've done to impact this and make sure that people feel like there is opportunities at your store?

Terese Fogleman (00:46:26):

Yes. So we just created a visual, I don't have that to share with you today of what's called the leadership journey at our store. And it shows, it looks like, like a road, an undulating road, but it shows where you enter the leadership journey, which at our store is a trainer. The next step is an assistant shift manager, then a shift manager, then a senior shift manager. And then above that would be going into department heads. And I want people to know from the very beginning that you can become a leader in this store and some of the parameters there, you have to work there 90 days before you could be considered for leadership. And you also have to have good attendance, and you have to have a good work ethic and a positive attitude. If you have those things, then you can qualify for this first level of leadership.

(00:47:31):

And then once you're in that first level, you can just continue to grow. And we provide opportunities for growth all along the way, that first level of leadership, they go through a video curriculum from a company called Growing Leaders. I mentioned that last year. It's led by a gentleman named Dr. Tim Elmore out of Atlanta, and he's created this learning around symbols and the programs called Habit. And so my training director, he has the trainers come in once a week and sits down with them, shows them a video, they discuss it. And I love being there in the office when they're doing that because the things they start thinking about and the conversations they have with each other, it's great to hear them. So immediately they start learning and then they can, as they journey on and journeying on, is up to the individual. But the opportunities are there, and this is what I always tell people who want to grow in the business, is it's up to you.

(00:48:43):

The opportunities always exist and just show us what you've got. And we're always looking to see who's growing in this business and who's doing a great job. And those are the people who we want to give the opportunities to. So there's a real sense in my business of challenge and excitement and people don't feel stuck. And I'll give you an example. Yesterday, one of my departmental heads came to me and said, I'm feeling a little burnt out and I don't want to be burnt out because I love what I do in this department. But he was getting burnt out with just operational task because let's be honest, a restaurant is not exciting work. It's very repetitive work. It's very, yeah, you learn how to do certain things, you know how to do them, you can do them in your sleep. So he was getting a little tired of doing some operational things, and I said, it's great that you told me you're feeling burnt out.

(00:49:53):

I appreciate that. So I said, in a perfect world, what would it look like for you to create some variety in your job? And I said, you figure that out and tell me, or email me and then I'll figure out how much we can do of that in the reality of where the business is right now. And he was like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. Thank you. And I said, we'll have to be realistic. But yes, if you need some variety, goodness gracious, we can provide it. And that's another thing, I just find that sharp people want variety. They want challenges, they want opportunities. And so I consider it one of the most important parts of my job is the employer to provide those for people and people will stay with you when you do that. I have some of the greatest young people who work for me who've been with me six years, eight years, nine years, 10 years. They started when they were 15, they finished high school, finished college, and now they're helping me lead the business us because it's not boring.

Daniel Blaser (00:51:09):

Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. And I love that you mentioned too that you have kind of the path for advancement visible in your store, because that's another, I think a huge thing is if people just feel like it's very fuzzy, what does the path for advancement look like for me? And they don't ever really know, then they're going to assume there isn't one, right? So that's a great example that you shared.

Terese Fogleman (00:51:37):

I would like to tell you, I do have some secret weapons, and those are my own kids who are, I've listened to them talk about jobs as they've graduated from college and gone into the work world and just listening to them talking about all these things. And I'm like, oh, okay, don't do that. Do this. They're a great source of information about how not to do things because they're so, they'll tell me, whereas my employees might not actually tell me. But yes, we have four kids, we have a blended family, and they've helped me learn a lot about being a good employer.

Daniel Blaser (00:52:23):

Yeah, yeah, indeed. I can only imagine. Alright, so I want to make sure we have time for a couple more things here We are. First we're going to have a little competition. There are some Amazon gift cards on the line. Theresa, I don't know if you qualify, you were the presenter. It's okay. No, I'm just kidding. All right. So as we mentioned a little bit, workstream was the sponsor of this webinar, and one of the things that Workstreams platform does is enable a really easy quick way to get applicants for your jobs that you're trying to hire for. And so with this little competition we have on the next slide, kind of a mockup of a hiring poster, and there's a QR code on that hiring poster. And this is kind of like one that you would see, maybe one that you use yourself, Terese, I don't know. But

Terese Fogleman (00:53:21):

Yes, we used your QR codes. They're

Daniel Blaser (00:53:24):

Awesome. Oh, great. Okay. Well there we have it for hiring. So on the next slide, when I go there, the first 15 people that use the QR code, you can just use your phone and then you go through and it's a really quick little application. It's not real. We're not actually thinking that you're applying for a job. It's just to kind of show you the process. If you go through that process, the first 15 people will get a $20 Amazon gift card. So if you're interested, start your phone cameras, I guess. Now here's the mockup. Maybe looks a little different than the ones you uses. Maybe yours is probably a little more Chick-fil-A branded, if I imagine.

Terese Fogleman (00:54:05):

No, that's exactly what we use. Oh,

Daniel Blaser (00:54:07):

There you go.

Terese Fogleman (00:54:07):

Yeah.

Daniel Blaser (00:54:08):

Well perfect. I'm glad it works well for you.

Terese Fogleman (00:54:11):

It

Daniel Blaser (00:54:11):

Does. So yeah, you can use a QR code with your camera or you can also text this 4 7 3 1 triple zero six number, and I'll leave this on for a second while I leave this up. I'll talk just a little bit more about workstream and then we'll get into some q and a for a few minutes. But workstream, like I mentioned, it's all about making the hiring and employee management tasks, many of which we've talked about, making that easier and making it, I'm just going to not put words in your mouth trees, but I feel like kind of a little bit of the implication behind a lot of what you've said is spending the time and the energy where it matters with your employees, helping them feel like they belong, making accommodations for them. All of these things are really important, but I feel like they're not as possible if you're spending time managing paper applications and doing things kind of the old school way when it comes to hiring and employee management and whatnot, onboarding.

(00:55:29):

So anyway, that's kind of the quick overview is with workstream, you can hopefully take care of a lot of these tasks and automate them so that you then free up the time to focus on maybe some of the more impactful stuff. So hopefully everyone who wants to win that gift card has had the chance. I'm going to go to the next slide, but in 3, 2, 1, a couple more quick things about workstream and then we'll go to the q and a. We do have a specialty in quick service restaurants. That's one reason we wanted a great Chick-fil-A operator with us here. Chick-fil-A is one of the brands that we work with a lot, as well as out of the top 50 quick service restaurant brands in the US we work with 46 of them, so we definitely,

Terese Fogleman (00:56:29):

That's impressive.

Daniel Blaser (00:56:29):

Yeah, definitely have a pretty good relationship with a lot of these top brands and maybe some of these are familiar for those attending this right now maybe's one of your brands and we say that we can save somewhere upwards of 16 days per month on administrative tasks when you add up all the hours and the time. So once again, it's all about saving time so that you can spend that time on more important tasks. And with that, I'll end my quick pitch and we'll get into some q and a.

Alan (00:57:13):

Hey everybody, I'm back. This is why they pay me the big bucks. Let's do this. So some questions did come in. Thank you very much Daniel and Terese for that information, those insights and experiences, that's greatly appreciated. Among the questions that have come in is this one that sort of mentions that accommodation to respect aren't really a problem for this group, but getting the workers to show up and follow policy and procedure might be sometimes so they say or find our younger workers will do what they're supposed to and supervise, but not on their own, and they will have a no call or no-show and then talk about their phone being broken. So Terese, do you have any ways that you've sort of found a deal with this situation or do you have that situation pop up in your world?

Terese Fogleman (00:57:56):

Wow, I feel their pain. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely broken phones. Yeah, that's an excuse we've heard many times. So I think there's a couple of questions in there. So let's pull out the one about the no call, no show, sorry, that's the grandfather clock in our living room. I think that the no call, no show issues happen for at every restaurant. And a few years ago I created an attendance policy that has points and it's very elementary. It is like something people would have in school, but it addresses things quite well and we just make sure we hold people accountable. And when we first introduced that attendance policy, yeah, we lost people, but it's been in place now for three years and attendance is no longer an issue. Now do people just quit out of the blue? Yes. We had someone who seemed very happy with their job, reach out to the general manager yesterday at six o'clock in the morning when they were supposed to open the store, help open the store at six 30 and say, I'm having a lot of issues, sorry, I won't be coming to work ever again. So yes, those things still happen, but I think a well-crafted attendance policy can really stop the bleeding and then you're not dealing with it every single shift, every single day. So there was another part to that question, Alan, could you repeat that

Alan (00:59:58):

Part? Let's see. Following policy and procedure, they do it when supervised, but not so much when not. Is that what you're thinking about?

Terese Fogleman (01:00:04):

Yes, yes. I would say that that also is a part of our reality as well. And in the 12 years that I've been doing this, I've come to realize that I have to have someone who's older at the restaurant every shift there to just let it all be people who are the same age and who are peers. The work doesn't get done the way I would want it to get done. So I've just instituted that. Let's say in the evening when the majority of the people who are working after four o'clock are high schoolers, their supervisor is not going to be a fellow high schooler. It's going to be someone who's 23 or 24 a senior in college or even out of college. There's always that authority in the store at all times because yes, people don't work the way you would want them to when it's just friends hanging out. So I would encourage you to do that.

Alan (01:01:10):

Alright, well that's good to know. Thank you. Here's another question that asks. Can you share what your onboarding timeline looks like and what steps? What are the steps for a new employee?

Terese Fogleman (01:01:22):

Yes. So the process begins with workstream actually, and a work stream aggregates the different applications that come in through different job platforms. Her title is talent director, but she's one of her responsibilities is hiring. So she monitors the work stream website every day and as soon as those applications are in, then she goes through those applications, figures out who she would like to have come in, and then she uses the schedule part of the website to schedule those. It's all very seamless because workstream uses text. It can use email as well. So we do, when we are trying to schedule, we do both. It's a very strange dynamic, but it's like if someone is under 30, email doesn't exist. They're only going to use text. So we've adapted to that and then she will schedule an interview with them. Every interviewee is given a 30 minute focused interview and she's been trained in interviewing.

(01:02:43):

And then at the end of the interview, she'll let them know that she'll reach back out to them. She and I will discuss if the person's going to be hired. We'll make a decision. We reach back out to everybody in 24 hours or less, whether it's a yes or a no. That builds a lot of respect there. We never, ever ghost someone. We will not ghost people, even if we don't want them. We'll just say thank you so much. But we chose to go with another candidate. Once they're hired, we give them a week for getting all their paperwork back to us. All paperwork can be done through the workstream website, which is wonderful. Everything you need to do, your I nines, getting their driver's license, getting their social security number, everything very, it is a safe website. You can have all of that private information flow through there.

(01:03:37):

So they have one week to do all of that. And if they don't do it within a week, that's kind of vetting them. Unless there's a family emergency, they should be able to get that done in a week. It's very simple. It only takes like an hour. We actually take back the job offer because it's kind of like if you don't care enough to even get your paperwork in, you probably aren't going to be great about showing up to work on time. So once they do that, and that's back in, then the ball's rolling. They're hired, they come in, they have an orientation within 48 hours, and they're in our system and they're rolling.